chrisexv6

When i was looking for replacement windows for my home, I read a bit about "laminated" glass vs non-laminated.

The plastic lamination between the layers of glass, at least on a house, makes a huge difference in sound transmission. However, that could be because the frequencies involved are different and/or the fact that there is usually at least one other pane of glass separated by an airspace from the laminated pane.

Definitely good info, hearing from someone that has actually tried it. I really do think a lot of the noise is from other sources (i.e. pano roof, tires, etc). I was considering trying to add sound deadening to the front wheel wells and other various locations (trunk floor, inside of rear fenders, etc).

But its a brand new car, and I dont feel like pulling parts off it (to find out what is already insulated, etc), so I might wait a bit.

PirelliRC

congrats on the car,

dual pane is the way to go, my '13 UL has dual on the driver and passenger windows, I'm surprised your 2015 UL did not come with them. Maybe because mine is a hybrid.

chrisexv6

I think the only one that "for sure" got dual pane are the hybrids, for some reason.

All the others it seems to be a crapshoot.

I hate to put all my faith in a company whose goal is profit over anything else, but I tend to believe if Lexus thought it made that much of a difference, they would use all dual pane or all thicker single pane instead of both.

PirelliRC

That is maybe because most of the new ES buyers (from what ive seen recently) seem to be upgrading from Camrys, Avalons, and Acuras, so the dual pane is not as noticeable to them perhaps.

But as for myself, i came from a 2014 GS 350 which also had dual pane and a much quiter cabin, so i would notice single glass right away especially on the highway.

chrisexv6

Someone previously in this thread said they actually paid for the dual pane glass out of pocket and installed it. Noticed *some* difference, but not a lot.

While Im sure it does make a difference, I still think the bulk of what Im hearing is tire noise, lack of sound insulation, something inherent to the design of the car, or a combination of some or all of those factors.

The fact that the car is dead quiet under 60mph and on different roads makes me thinks its more of a tire thing. Was looking around the car yesterday and pulled up the trunk floor to check the spare tire. There is no insulation anywhere on it....I was surprised. Granted, thats a really easy fix (and Im not even sure Im getting noise from there), but it makes me wonder where else insulation could/should be added. Even my 2000 Accord had some sort of jute/rubber insulation on the trunk floor from the factory.

swfla

iTrader: (1)

It's natural to assume that the spare tire well/trunk would benefit from sound deadening. But, it's also possible that the engineers have already tested that theory and the cost outweighs the benefit. If you decide to add it, let us know your opinion of the benefit to cost.

chrisexv6

Will do.

Hopefully Ill drive the car a bit and try to determine where most of the noise is coming from. I dont really remember thinking "gee it sounds loud *behind* me" so Im pretty sure the trunk area isnt a huge factor.

I do remember adding some insulation to my Accord just to keep vibrations down (I had added a large stereo system) and it definitely helped, but Im not planning on vibrating the heck outta the ES so it might not be necessary.

EDIT: in the realm of home theater audio, there are programs that run in conjunction with a USB microphone to map out frequency response, SPL levels, etc. Id be interested to see if using something like that could help determine exactly what the noise is, and then one could determine a little better WHERE it is coming from (i.e. this frequency = that noise and that noise only comes from area Y)

lesz

This morning, I just got back home from a 100 mile trip. Based on my curiosity after following this thread, I was paying careful attention to sounds/noise during the entire trip.

Most of the trip was done at speeds between 65 and 70 mph. I was able to hear no noise whatever from the area around the window, and I even listened carefully with my ear right next to the window. Virtually no sound at all was entering the cabin from the engine compartment at those 70 mph speeds with the engine cruising at about 2000 rpm. The only sound that was entering the cabin was very slight and it was from the tires and road. When driving on smooth pavement, that sound was barely perceptible. When driving on roads with lots of expansion joints or other imperfections, it was a bit louder, but it was still at a very low level.

My ES is a 2013 with the luxury package, 17 inch wheels, and the Michelin tires (inflated to 33 psi cold pressure), and it has single-paned glass windows and the standard sun roof.

As I said in a previous post, I'm confident in guessing that, if you are hearing more noise, it is primarily the result of some combination of the 18 inch wheels, the Bridgestone tires, and the panoramic sun roof. Further, I would speculate that the 18 inch wheels are a bigger factor than the Bridgestone tires. With 18 inch wheels, you have a lot less air in between the rubber and the wheels to cushion the sound (and feel) from even slight imperfections in the road surface. With regard to single or double-paned glass, I'm also confident in guessing that what makes more difference is the overall aerodynamic shape of the entire vehicle and how much air is directed in a manner that it is pounding against the windows, and the aerodynamics of the ES seems to be very good in that regard.

Arty101

My 300h hybrid came with single pane glass. It's a lux package and not the ultra lux with 17inch wheels. As others have said, i think most of your noise is coming from your tires/wheel and not the windows.

chromedome

Seems like Lexus made dual pane glass an early option before going with single pane. My 2014-build ES300h has single pane glass. I've noticed some wind noise coming from the driver's side mirror, especially when near the center divider or in a cross wind, but most of the noise comes from the tires. A good mod could be adding extra padding to the footwell and wheel well areas.

chrisexv6

Yeah I want to try lining the wheel wells, but Im not sure how to approach it.

Pull the plastic wells off and line the "outside" (i.e. the side you cant see when installed) or line the inside (i.e. where the wheels are)

I know a lot of high end luxury cars have something like a carpeted lining inside (where the wheels are) for sound absorption, so maybe thats the right way to go.

NickTee

You have to consider the frequencies involved. Lining the fenders is not going to be effective if the frequencies you're trying to block are low frequencies. The liners used in luxury cars will block sound, but it's typically higher frequency sound. You'd be better off spending your money on swapping tires before lining the fenders.

I spent countless hours researching different types of acoustic felt, what the OEM felt liners are made of, using mass loaded vinyl with closed cell foam, spraying on a thick coat of acoustic rubber coating, etc. The ultimate combination would be felt backed with mass loaded vinyl(MLV) or lead sheets and CCF to block and absorb more noise, this way the wheel well doesn't become an acoustic resonance chamber. I also found it's wiser to buy a better tire and wheel combination before trying to throw money at lining the fenders.
You can also try using CLD tiles along the entire car, along with MLV constrained with closed cell foam(CCF) underneath the carpet on the floor, on all the doors, in the trunk area, and on the firewall. It's not going to get much quieter than that.

chrisexv6

Thanks for the advice.

Does anyone know the model of Michelin tire that is provided on the ES 18" wheels? I thought I read Primacy but I wasnt sure....curious if something in their design (i.e. a center rib) makes them that much quieter or if its just a compound thing along with a slightly different tread pattern.

swfla

iTrader: (1)

Tire Rack has a search that shows you OEM tires for most vehicles. But unless you know for a fact that people loved them, I wouldn't assume. They can change by year.


Also wanted to comment about the laminated glass on side windows. In an emergency, it's a fact that they're extremely difficult to break out of the door for an escape. The film sandwiched between the layers is the culprit. A standard escape tool won't get you out.

lesz

Another thought came to mind related to anyone who might be hearing wind noise from the area around the windows. Do you have paint protection film installed on your vehicle, and, if so, is it installed on the mirrors? I've read a number of threads on this board in which people discovered that the source of the wind noise that they were hearing was paint protection film on the mirrors. Supposedly, the shape of the mirrors is well-designed with regard to aerodynamic considerations, and even something as thin as the paint protection film can throw off those aerodynamics and result in wind noise.