airgas1998

valid points, and yes the reliability factor and resale value were my top priorities.

SW17LS

I think that if the Genesis had a Lexus badge on it a lot of your issues would have been solved.

That's not meant to be a derogatory statement, brand is a powerful thing, especially when making a luxury purchase. I've struggled with it myself, as impressive as the Genesis is I don't think I could pull the trigger on one either. My GS lease is up in 7 months and there are a great many things I think he Genesis does better. But, can I trade my Lexus in on a Hyundai? It'd be tough.

And if you keep it a long time, 5, 8, 10 years down the line the ES is still a nice Lexus, is the Hyundai still a classy ride? I dunno.

If you lease though, the Genesis is a very compelling value vs the ES. You get a car that feels and drives 1-2 segments higher for the same money.

Niscur32

We would have a 2015 genesis in our driveway right now if it weren't for the local Hyundai dealers thinking they are selling a unicorn with a premium. We loved everything about the new Genny and it was first on our list. Size, amenities, looks, tech, rwd, and price. Unfortunately dealers around us wouldn't come close to the deal lexus was going to make us. Hyundai had 30+ gennys on the lot and no one shopping them but us and refused to budge on price vs Lexus. For instance Lexus offered decent trade in and the 2015 es @ invoice no problem even with plenty of 2014's on the lot. No extra negotiations we got the es at the price we wanted and the trade was close enough. Hyundai on the other hand....all dealers we went to as well...lowballed our trade and were no where near invoice. Everytime we started to negotiate lower sales people started talking about getting commissions and how the dealership can't make any money....that's when it was time to just move on.

We know sometimes you don't get what you want trade in or price wise, but when two cars present themselves for relatively identical deals I'm not going to take a loss on a Hyundai compared to getting close on what I wanted at Lexus. For reference our $46k stickered ES cost less than the basic $43k Genny v6 luxury out the door we were offered. I think the swing was $5k difference.

The genesis is/was a beautiful car. And every time I see one I always think what if. But at the end of the day its still a Hyundai... A damn nice one. However the ES is equally as nice and met what we wanted and was cheaper.

Neoxagon

Anyone seen this Genesis video?

chromedome

Of all the non-luxury brands who have tried swimming in the luxury pool, only Toyota have succeeded with Lexus. Infiniti and Acura are still trying to figure out what to do even after being in the market for so long.

For Hyundai and Kia to sell the Genesis/K900 they need to improve their reliability image (it's the perception that counts for most consumers and not the reality) and up their service game. Toyota already had a reliable image when they came up with Lexus. I wonder how Toyota sells their big luxury cars like the Crown in Japan.

LexBob2

As much as I liked the previous gen Genesis, when I bought my 2010 ES350, I just couldn't pull the trigger on the Genesis. As mentioned earlier, it was a brand thing with me. I really like the new gen too, but if I was in the market for a new car I'd have to be in the right frame of mind to go with the Hyundai. Maybe this time I'd do it, but really hard to ignore the satisfaction with back to back problem free ES350's.

Maikerusan

Agree with you. I go to Japan several times each year. Toyota has a facility called Toyota City Showcase at Odaiba in Tokyo..sort of a waterfront theme area with mall, restaurants, etc. At the showcase you can see all their products, concept vehicles, ride a race simulator and drive some of the cars on an enclosed track. Best of all is they have lots of cars, all with the price on them, all available to sit in, look in etc. Not a sales facility, simply a showcase type of place. I saw some very nice Crown's in there (and yes, the price can get pretty high)

Arty101

Is this similar to Subaru's iSight?

gemigniani

I had the same experience in the San Francisco and Sacramento areas...Hyundai dealers were remarkably reluctant to discount much off MSRP despite huge aging inventories of Sonatas and Genesis's. I even tried Hardin Hyundai in Los Angeles - the highest volume dealership in the western USA and got nowhere on price. Toyota & Lexus dealers, by contrast, were much more eager to do business and more professional and pleasant to deal with.

chromedome

Instructions from up high maybe? It could be Hyundai USA or Korea telling dealers to stay firm on price to make the cars look more valuable. Then again, unlike wine, stock sitting unsold isn't going to appreciate in value.

Niscur32

Could be a corporate thing but I see it this way....certain cars dealers aren't going to budge on and as a buyer you have to decide whether that makes fiscal sense to you. I see these as your Audi R cars, BMW M cars, AMG, Lexus F etc. Cars that dealers have few of and buyers will pay for....But a Hyundai genesis doesn't belong in that category......EVER

When we left my wife and I both thought... Well this was Hyundai's first and only chance to get us into a genesis....we would have had the GS f.sport if number 2 kid didn't arrive and 5 years from now or whenever we get tired of the es and don't need the infant seat room we certainly aren't going to shop Hyundai's again.

lesz

I know that there are a good number of people who post on this board who are old enough to remember back to 30 years ago, but there are some who aren't, and some historical perspective might be interesting.

Thirty years ago, the pricing situation from the Japanese manufacturers was quite similar to that being described for Hyundai now. If you had wanted to buy a Honda or a Toyota or a Nissan vehicle 30 years ago, any discounting from MSRP would have been quite minimal, and, in some cases, no discounting at all from MSRP would have been available. In some cases, you would have even had to pay a premium over MSRP. Had you, for example, wanted to buy a Honda Prelude in the mid-1980s, you would have ended up paying a couple of hundred dollars over MSRP. At the same time, Ford, GM, and Chrysler were routinely selling vehicles for prices very close to invoice and, in some cases, below invoice.

Since retained value of used cars is based on their prices compared to MSRP and is not based on their prices compared to actual new vehicle selling prices, by holding the line on the selling prices of new vehicles, the Japanese manufacturers were able to make it appear (somewhat falsely) that their vehicles were maintaining a higher a percentage of their original price.

While people, in the 1980s, complained about the lack of discounting on Japanese vehicles and predicted that those companies would not be able to compete with that kind of pricing strategy, that very pricing strategy helped the Japanese companies to establish an image that their cars were in high demand and that their reliability allowed them to maintain a high percentage of their original cost.

It would appear that the Korean companies might well be employing a similar pricing and marketing strategy now.

airgas1998

i don't by it....i think what's going on is simply a demographic issue. i can get the genesis where i'm at all day long w/out even trying for 5k less msrp.

MDames2

iTrader: (1)

I think the obvious thing is that this is a new model Genesis in 2015. Whenever a new model comes out there is little discounting in the first 6 months or so. This is true for all Lexus vehicles as well. There will be discounts on the Genesis after it has been out for a while longer.

LexBob2

Good point. Thru February Genesis sales in the U.S. are +75% vs. a year ago. When sales start to level off, the discounts will increase.