Mike728

You'll wand the comparisons to be between the ES and the Avalon, not the Camry.

mspearl95

here's a comparison- not the best, but covers the basics- base model es350 to an avalon limited.

http://cars.findthebest.com/compare/...Avalon-Limited

lesz

Unfortunately, that comparison does not include a number of things that the ES has either as standard or as available that are not included on the Avalon. For example, the ES has real wood trim. The Avalon has fake plastic simulated wood trip. De-icing wipers, heated steering wheel, and a power telescoping steering wheel are available on the ES and not available at all on the Avalon. ES seats have more adjustment options available than do the seats on the Avalon. The Avalon is not available with a panoramic sunroof or semi-aniline leather, which are available with the ES UL package. I'm sure that there are others, but the ones I listed are ones that quickly come to mind. I'm also confident that there are other differences that are not visible. I get my ES serviced at a Toyota dealership, and I've gotten Avalon loaners. There is no question that the ES does a better job of isolating sound from the road, from the engine compartment, and from the wind, and the leather in the Avalon interior is not of the same quality as even the standard leather in the ES. There is no question that the ES has quality and features that the Avalon doesn't have. Whether that quality and those features are worth the price premium that the ES commands is a question that can only be answered by each potential buyer. For me, the fake wood on the Avalon, by itself would be a deal-breaker. (In fairness, I should point out that the Avalon does have a few available features that are not on the Lexus, including rear seat zone heating, heated rear seats, and an electronic device charging station, but the list of features available on the ES and not on the Avalon is considerably longer.)

larrytstar

Thanks for the comparison and comments. I was actually asking more about structural, mechanical and build related differences - those that would not show up on a features list. Things like the glass and insulation that I mentioned. I suspect only a mechanic or body-man who works on both would be privy to those differences.

gemigniani

There have been several road test reviews of the Camry/Avalon/ES. None of the credible ones indicated the 2013/14 ES is quieter or smoother riding or had more supportive front seats than the 2013/14 Avalon or 2012-14 Camry. On the Toyota nation 2013 Avalon forum there are lots and lots of interior noise level/ ride impact harshness / front seat comfort on long drives complaints just like on this 2013 ES forum.

Instead of signficant structural, mechanical and build related differences that affect ride comfort, interior noise levels, seat comfort and vehicle weight as compared to the Avalon, the ES offers some more subtle types of refinements that don't affect weight; like front and rear door mechanisms that open and close noticably more effortlessly. And a little less hard plastic in the interior as compared to the Avalon.

If you strip down the interior of an ES to add dynamat or other insulation you will find alot of bare metal under the carpets and inside the doors just as you would on an Avalon or Camry. And also notice the door panels are made out of hard plastic instead of sound absorbing fiberboard like in older generations of ES's and Avalons.

amphipri0n

The ES has come standard with an acoustic glass windshield (laminated) since a refresh of the prior generation. This is a feature that was only present in Camry hybrid. Door and window seals are larger and more robust on ES, you can see this by visually comparing the two open doors.

My limited time riding in a rental Camry, I can confidently say that the ride is actually a little softer than my ES (with 18" Michelins), however wind noise was not as hushed. Over bumps and potholes the Camry exhibited more noise and rattling, however minor, than the ES which is still to date completely silent when going through bumps. Over rough roads, both were on par as far as noise.


Source? Do you actually strip 2013+ ESs down yourself or is this anecdotal?

lesz

My experience would be consistent with most of what you have observed. Since I get both my ES and my GX serviced at a Toyota dealer, I've had numerous opportunities to drive both Camrys and Avalons as loaner cars, and it would be difficult for me to imagine how anyone who has actually driven both vehicles would not very quickly notice that the ES is quieter than either the Camry or the Avalon. Wind noise is at a quickly and easily noticeably lower level in the ES. There is a significant edge for the ES with regard to engine noise that makes its way into the cabin. With the 17 inch wheels that I have on my ES, even road noise is at least as good and, perhaps, a bit better with the ES than it is with either the Camry or the Avalon. Also, I very quickly noticed that the presence of rattles and squeaks with the two Toyota models contrasted with the complete absence of rattles and squeaks that I have with the ES.

I have no idea what might be different "under the skin" of the Toyotas compared to what the Lexus has, but something must be different. Also note that, a couple of weeks ago, someone posted a link to a Lexus document that talked about the interior "plastic" on the ES. It is, in reality, not plastic. Instead it is some sort of product made from plant material that is supposed to be, not only more environmentally friendly, but also effective in reducing noise in the cabin.

The Camry and the Avalon are both superb vehicles, and I would never think of saying otherwise, but the level of refinement and attention paid to detail in the Lexus is a few notches higher. Similarly, I've owned both a Toyota 4Runner and a Lexus GX, which share many components. The 4Runner was, without a doubt, an outstanding vehicle, but the GX is quieter, more refined, and, again, built with a higher level of attention paid to detail.

uncle

Camry: Hecho en Indiana, Lexus Hecho en Japan

LexBob2

Before too long ES production will be moved to Kentucky alongside the Avalon.

hoosier1

If you value a high level of quality, choose the ES. Lexus has a slower build time in Japan, and you will find that the overall build quality and specifications are superior for any Lexus model.