jandkw

James Healey is a respectable reviewer and the one I follow a lot. Since I am waiting for my ES300h and wonder if I test drove the car enough. There are some positives and some not so good comments. I'm a little concerned.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...drive/1628069/

For some of you who own the ES300h, can you comment and confirm the following points he made:

1. "The big disappointment is the gas-electric hybrid version"..."The hybrid powertrain has a low-brow feel out of character with the oh-so-nice persona of the rest of the car. The hybrid's four-cylinder gas engine sounds and feels coarse. And there's unexpected shimmy and stutter when the gas engine starts and comes into play to help the electric motor. That's how all hybrids used to feel, but the state of the art has improved a lot."
2. "In our drive, the main failing was mileage. Government ratings for gas and hybrid models are good, but we didn't come close, even though we used the "eco" settings more than usual and drove as always (heavy-footed but not aggressive). Gas model got in the midteens; hybrid in the high-20s in mixed driving."
3. "Also an irritant: Lexus' "Remote Touch" joystick control, part of the navigation package and mounted on the console — as in BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi and others — is awkward to operate and has an unnatural feel, and the menu of choices won't fit everybody's notion of logical. No problem if it were a minor control, but it's how you operate most features and functions."

MikeP

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it seems James Healey differs from most other reviewers. I own an RX450h and when I test drove an ES300h, I was amazed how much smoother, quieter and more responsive it was than my RX. I felt no shuttering at all. There are times, although rare, you can tell when the gas engine starts, but you have to be paying attention. It is far from objectionable.

As for his lackluster fuel economy figures, he did mention he drove the car "heavy footed". As an experienced auto reviewer, he should realize that is not the way to extract the maximum economy from any car, much less a hybrid. Before I learned the best technique for optimizing my RX450h's fuel economy, I was only getting 26mpg, When I used the proper technique, it rose to 31-32 mpg.

It is always entertaining to read car reviews. Sometimes the reviewer will confirm your prior opinions or the review might disagree with your own. It's educational, but unless the information is measurable, it's just an opinion, no better or worse than your own. My suggestion is to test drive an ES300h again to see if you get the same impression you did that made you decide to buy the car. Read the reviews and comments from those on this forum who own and drive their cars on a daily basis. I think that's where you'll find truer information. But that's just my opinion.

uicandrew

Some reviewers also say what their mileage was when they drive "spiritedly" vs careful driving.

The Tv show, Top gear, did a neat test where the Prius was driven aggressively around a course and a BMW m3 had to merely keep up but not pass the Prius. The BMW got better gas mileage. It's not just what you drive, but how u drive it.

JerryKK

I agree, James Healey is a pretty good reviewer and well-respected; however, the way you drive a car is different than me and the way he drives a car is different than both of us. Also, who knows if he got a test car that was a basic car or what options were in the car. You don't get a hybrid for performance - you get it for other reasons - the car does 0-60 in 8 seconds - that is faster than many gas engine cars and good enough for decent perforamance. I have only had my car a week and I have driven it four times - going about 200 miles and two times having three others in the car - and I am still getting (according to the computer) 38.5 mpg. The only point I agree with is that the mouse for the nav system is awkward - but you do have voice commands.

jandkw

Thanks for your inputs.

jetman

Have to agree with his comments on the joystick. The touch screen on my IS 250 seemed easier and much quicker to use. The only advantage is that the screen doesn't get fingerprints on it. I think Lexus engineers tried to get too cute when designing this system.

ElliotB

When it comes to FE, all drivers (and driving styles) are not created equal. The results are not surprising. We had an '06 Prius for several years. When my wife drove it, she averages in the high 30mpg range. When I drove it, I averaged in the high 50mpg range.

I think a typical driving can expect near EPA results. Hyper-milers should do noticeably better. Even with a heavy foot, it will be difficult to get bad FE with the 300h.

MikeP

The latest trend, not only for Lexus, is to place the nav screen high to reduce having to move your eyes too far down to look at the monitor. This position requires the screen to be inset to reduce glare, which makes it difficult to reach for touch screen applications. That's why most manufacturers are using remote controllers. Some designs are better than others, but Lexus has one of the best remote controller designs, IMO.

jetman

I understand the reasoning, but I still feel the joystick awkward to use. I don't think I've seen any reviewer praise the joystick either. It just doesn't feel natural to use it. Maybe as I own the car a little longer, I'll adjust to it and my opinion will change...

UncleBen

Stick to it (no pun intended) Jetman, make the haptic adjustments to your taste, and it will grow on you. It took me a while, but like it now. The same as it took me a while to get used to the voice commands ... and now, I used them all the time.

jandkw

UncleBen, I didn't have a chance to play with the haptic adjustment when test drive. Does it make it better control the pointer so you don't over-shooting. Which level or setting do you use?

UncleBen

Yes, it allows you to fine tune it a bit. But no matter what level you set it at, there's a bit of a learning curve. I can't remember where I set it at. I'll check and get back.

Tribob

I had a 2005 ES330 then wife bought a 2011 CT200. I liked the CT and everything about it including the Joystick. Now I have the ES300h with about 2k on it.
ES300 is 1) Faster and quicker than 2005 and CT. 2) Love the joystick. 3) First tank on ES300 36.6 MPG, second tank, 37.9 MPG, third tank 38.2. 4) Fit and finish of ES300 is by far better than ES330 and a step above CT.

My opinion is the quality of drive is in the expectations. The ES300h is after all a Hybrid and takes some getting use to. I understand how the mechanical/electric system works and do not find anything awkward about it nor annoying (including braking).

As you can see, as I am adjusting to the car the mileage is going up.

Once again it is a matte of expectations.

kesando

+1

I find that I can navigate through the Menu quickly with the Lexus touch system. My parents however take a while to perform the same tasks. To each his own I guess.

jandkw

It's good to hear some of you like the Joystick. I use my mouse many hours a day and didn't expect to be an issue but certainly it makes a difference when driving. I also never own an hybrid with CVT so it's going to take some time getting used to. Better mpg is the first reason I go for the ES300h instead of the gas version.