Skip

The Cad looks like a ghetto cab! Go with the Lexus. Buy it, Drive it, and forget about it. You will have bought one of the most reliable cars made. I would pay full msrp and buy the Lexus over a free General Motors anything! I am sure if you buy the Cad, you will be regretting it for as long as you have the car.

SW17LS

I know plenty of people who have new Cadillacs and love them...no problems...

The XTS is unquestionably more car than the ES, all you have to do is look at one objectively and drive them both to see that. It is however, more expensive than the ES, so you would expect it to be more car.

oldcajun

Just for my information I went down and drove an XTS. They had a Platinum version for a tester which was the fully loaded version. Sticker price was just over $61K! Car looks very nice and this is the best GM interior I've seen. The XTS feels about the same size as an LS460 and I expected a similar smooth quiet ride. I was disappointed in the low speed ride. I could feel every road imperfection. At freeway speed, the ride was fine but the road noise was much higher than I expected.

I did not feel that the XTS rode much like the E350. The ride on the E350 is firm but not as busy as the XTS. At freeway speeds, the E350 is much quieter.

Is the XTS better than an ES350? Not in my perception! It is larger but lacks the ES refinement in ride and quiet. Styling is up to personal taste, but I thought the interior materials in the ES UL were superior to the XTS. There are some interesting high tech goodies as part of CUE that Lexus does not offer. Acceleration seemed about the same, but the Lexus was much smoother and quieter during full throttle acceleration.

There is about $10000 difference between the UL version of the ES350 and the comparable XTS Platinum. Even if Cadillac fixed the ride/noise issues, that is too much spread.

Steve

LexBob2

On pricing alone I think the XTS will be shopped and bought by a different buyer than the ES. Maybe a little overlap, but at $55k-+$60k the spread puts the Caddy in a different range.

Personally if I was looking to spend that kind of money there are several cars that I'd consider over the XTS.

SW17LS

This I just can't agree with. The ES has several areas where very low end plastic is obviously used, lower door panels, the area around the door handles (no idea why this isn't nice plastic since you touch it so often), lower door panels, the stuff around the shifter's not great...nothing in the XTS I touched was poor quality, everything was leather, soft touch plastic, or metalized trim. No grainy, cheap plastic at all...and that does exist on the ES350. The UL package does nothing to change any of that.

Now, like I said spec to spec the XTS is about $10-15k more than the ES, so you can excuse that...but to say the interior materials in the ES are superior to the XTS is absolutely a biased opinion.

Ride and drive, refinement, the ES bests it completely, but not in the interior.

longslim

Skippie! I find your descriptive of the car a little strange. Why does the XTS Cadillac make you see it as Ghetto what doe Ghetto mean smh? Are you infering that a ES is more for us in suburbia ie white person while Calddy is for those people ijs. I just want a car that looks nice to me and not some political or racial stereotyping. If you are really willing to pay more(MSRP) for something to defend your political belief so be it. Me, I'd never cut my nose to spite my face. At one time GM paid for my food and shelter my dad work there and a lot of my family as well. And your wishes for me to regret anything in my life, can go to hell along with you

Skip

Your father probably worked for GENERAL MOTORS. The current company (GM) is GOVERNMENT MOTORS. It is a completely different company, kept afloat by yours and mine tax dollars. If their quality didn't tank, General Motors would still be in business. Even their stock has a different symbol.

At $60K there are way better choices than the Cad. Almost all of them will be rear wheel drive, which drive way better than almost any front wheel drive car. A GS drives much better than an ES, and is also $10 grand more. A new GS drives better than almost any 4 door sedan.

I still think that the Cad is terrible looking. Reminds me of a Checker Marathon, which was built as a cab. Everyone will have a different opinion on what looks good, that's why God made blonds and brunettes.

$50-60K is a lot of money to spend on anything! I personally feel that the Lexus is a higher quality vehicle and a better deal in the long run. All cars are about the worst investment that we ever make, but, they are fun and that's why we are arguing over them.

Whatever you decide to buy, I hope that you are happy with it and that it gives you years of great service.

SW17LS

Say what you want, but they are making some really well built cars nowadays. You should go drive some of them. Sales are much better, company has really turned around.

No it doesn't.

The reason their stock symbol was different is because they were delisted by the NYSE when they filed for bankruptcy. It was traded as GMGMQ on the Pink Sheets and then was traded as MTLQQ to avoid confusion, which is basically what was left of the old GM after their bankruptcy. Whenever you see a "Q" after a stock ticker symbol the company is in BK.

GM had a new IPO on Nov 17th 2011, you might have heard of it...second biggest IPO ever to date. Traded on the NYSE as...you guessed it..."GM"...same as always.

What other full size luxury cars can deliver what the XTS delivers at the same price? The only one that comes to mind is the Hyundai Equus.

Depends on what you're looking for. I don't think the GS drives better than the ES, I think the ES drives better than the GS because it has more of the attributes I'm looking for. The GS certainly has more handling prowess, but thats not what I'm really looking for.

A Checker Marathon?!?! Okay.





The similarities are obvious!

I don't disagree.

jollick

Speaking of GM's IPO. I put a theoretical $10k into it and as of business close yesterday, I have lost 1/3 of my theoretical investment.

Skip

The Checker in the photo is really nice. Thanks for posting it!

LexBob2

Yup the Checker does look a lot like the XTS what with the wheels, tires, windshield etc.

SW17LS

Yeah...what were they thinking?!?!

longslim

@Skip I was over the top and wrong in my post #21. But I get so sick of little snide retorts at work by co-workers. Always with a wink wink nod nod behind their backs about other American based on race. As this is a car forum it was out of bound and if I offend anyone I'm sorry.

Skip

You absolutely do not owe me any apology. I way overstated how I feel about the Cad because I really feel that Lexus builds some of the most reliable cars on the planet. All of the cars now days drive really nice and are screwed together pretty good. Where Lexus shines, is a few years down the road. They just seem to keep their new car feel longer than most cars.

The Cad is a really, really big car, but, the interior room does not seem that spacious for the size of the car. The Checker and the Cad really do look nothing alike. The Cad is red and the Checker is Silver. he he!

I probably owe you an apology, but, before I do that, you have to tell us what car you are going to buy.

I actually think that all of these cars are so expensive that it takes the joy out of buying them.

The smart thing to do would be to buy an Accord, Camry or Malibu and save the rest of the money. Of course we are not going to do that, because if we thought that way, we would not be on this board.

UncleBen

An interesting thread.

At the end of the day, the final verdict rests with the buying public, no matter what our personal likes and dislikes are all about.

I think that the 2013 ES 350 will again outsell its competition.