Mark Levinson Audio?
06-10-13, 01:24 PM
#451
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2. As I said before Lexus made it clear warranty issue and as said before good money was paid for the premium system in the ES.
:-)
06-10-13, 02:29 PM
#452
Even if the system did not have the distortion issue, you likely would still not be happy with it as the system you are comparing it to is obviously quite a different/better/superior system. It sounds like you should just return the vehicle and find something else.
Last edited by ElliotB; 06-10-13 at 02:48 PM.
06-13-13, 03:06 AM
#453
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Sorry for not posting sooner.
So on Monday June 17th I take my car into the dealer. That day the new amp will be installed. Tuesday the 18th I have a meeting with two mark levinson engineers who flew out form Michigan and one rep from Lexus corporate. The purpose of this meeting is to resolve the distortion issue. I do not know if the engineers can do anything more than just listen and talk. What I expect to happen is, if I still don't like the sound of the car the Lexus rep will discuss my options with the ML engineers. The options may include a 3rd party installer will put in a sub that will be covered by Lexus, or ML themselves will modify my vehicle at the dealer to install a larger diameter sub or a non-shallow mount sub. I have no idea.
never the less, I will post back on the 18th after I get back to work after the meeting and tell you all how the new amp performs. Everything I have heard from Lexus who heard from ML in regards to feedback from the few people who have experienced the new amp is very positive. I have hopes they have improved the sound quality of the ES350 enough to not pursue a lemon law case.
So on Monday June 17th I take my car into the dealer. That day the new amp will be installed. Tuesday the 18th I have a meeting with two mark levinson engineers who flew out form Michigan and one rep from Lexus corporate. The purpose of this meeting is to resolve the distortion issue. I do not know if the engineers can do anything more than just listen and talk. What I expect to happen is, if I still don't like the sound of the car the Lexus rep will discuss my options with the ML engineers. The options may include a 3rd party installer will put in a sub that will be covered by Lexus, or ML themselves will modify my vehicle at the dealer to install a larger diameter sub or a non-shallow mount sub. I have no idea.
never the less, I will post back on the 18th after I get back to work after the meeting and tell you all how the new amp performs. Everything I have heard from Lexus who heard from ML in regards to feedback from the few people who have experienced the new amp is very positive. I have hopes they have improved the sound quality of the ES350 enough to not pursue a lemon law case.
06-13-13, 10:51 AM
#454
".... tell you all how the new amp performs...."
Since the amp is not the problem, the only thing they can do to correct/eliminate the distortion is to lower the power of the output to the sub. Which will in turn reduce the quality of the bass. This is at best a Band-Aid fix and will likely be unacceptable to you. although I do hope it works for you.
I visited my local Lexus dealer in Pompano Beach Florida, JM Lexus, who has always given me exceptional customer service, and they have an audio department called Custom Creations. They showed me a conversion they have done on a GS hybrid, where a custom-made huge subwoofer is mounted in the trunk on the rear right side of the trunk in the cavity just under and to the right the hinge. It fits like a glove and looks made-to-measure. It takes up virtually no usable trunk space and there is also a volume control for the sub in the cabin. I was unable to listen to it today but will be when I go back to pick up my vehicle. It is a $1200 accessory, but I've been assured by the manager there that this sub really kicks! I think it is just what I need.
They have also assured me that it will not affect the new car warranty in any way, and will give that to me in writing.
I have maintained that even if the current sub worked without distortion (which at this point, I rarely experience), it does not deliver enough bass to those looking for some serious bass. I am happy with the ML radio overall, but would just like more bass, specifically thumping bass. I will likely have the installation done next week and will report back once I have the installation done.
Since the amp is not the problem, the only thing they can do to correct/eliminate the distortion is to lower the power of the output to the sub. Which will in turn reduce the quality of the bass. This is at best a Band-Aid fix and will likely be unacceptable to you. although I do hope it works for you.
I visited my local Lexus dealer in Pompano Beach Florida, JM Lexus, who has always given me exceptional customer service, and they have an audio department called Custom Creations. They showed me a conversion they have done on a GS hybrid, where a custom-made huge subwoofer is mounted in the trunk on the rear right side of the trunk in the cavity just under and to the right the hinge. It fits like a glove and looks made-to-measure. It takes up virtually no usable trunk space and there is also a volume control for the sub in the cabin. I was unable to listen to it today but will be when I go back to pick up my vehicle. It is a $1200 accessory, but I've been assured by the manager there that this sub really kicks! I think it is just what I need.
They have also assured me that it will not affect the new car warranty in any way, and will give that to me in writing.
I have maintained that even if the current sub worked without distortion (which at this point, I rarely experience), it does not deliver enough bass to those looking for some serious bass. I am happy with the ML radio overall, but would just like more bass, specifically thumping bass. I will likely have the installation done next week and will report back once I have the installation done.
Last edited by ElliotB; 06-13-13 at 10:56 AM.
06-14-13, 07:17 AM
#455
I listed to the sub in the GS they have on display today - it is amazing! I have ordered the upgrade and should have it installed sometime next week. Once it is installed, I will post a picture and give my impressions. JM Lexus is an amazing dealership - I have had them do several installations on my various vehicles and they always exceed my expectations. I know they will do a great job on this install.
Last edited by ElliotB; 06-14-13 at 07:21 AM.
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06-14-13, 09:17 AM
#458
06-14-13, 09:32 AM
#459
The sub in the GS I was listening to is a custom installed sub, not the regular one - I have ordered a similar one for my vehicle.
The dealer showed me the ES's sub in the trunk, and I was shocked how small it is. It is no wonder it doesn't sound good. They probably tried to keep it small and lightweight for the hybrid version of the vehicle, which makes sense. But ultimately, someone at Lexis/Mark Levinson goofed!
The dealer showed me the ES's sub in the trunk, and I was shocked how small it is. It is no wonder it doesn't sound good. They probably tried to keep it small and lightweight for the hybrid version of the vehicle, which makes sense. But ultimately, someone at Lexis/Mark Levinson goofed!
Last edited by ElliotB; 06-14-13 at 10:34 AM.
06-14-13, 10:57 AM
#460
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06-14-13, 12:32 PM
#461
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In the quest to get this current ES300h with the ML amp/subwoofer defect "trade assisted" to another new ES300h without the defect for the remainder of the lease. . .
When I called 800-25LEXUS option 5 to talk to my assigned agent, my previous report is no longer available within the Lexus database/system.
Back to square one. Hard to believe in the 21st century that software can "lose" records.
When I called 800-25LEXUS option 5 to talk to my assigned agent, my previous report is no longer available within the Lexus database/system.
Back to square one. Hard to believe in the 21st century that software can "lose" records.
Like others in this ES300h forum thread, I too have a audio distortion with the ML premium feature.
It sounds like the cross-over/amplifier is sending more than lower frequencies to the sub-woofer.
I can recreate the distortion on demand using a audio reference CD Bass 305 which I acquired when a audio retailer went out of business.
While parked, on a source with +/-0 Tre +/-0 Mid, +/- 0 Bass at >40 audio loudness, with ASL and DSP Enabled audio distortion occurs.
While drinving at highway speeds, with the same settings, bass audio distortion is present at >37 audio loudness. I imagine ASL to be the cause for the delta.
Disabling DSP seems to also alleviate the issue by 2-3 audio loudness ticks.
I have witnessed distortion via CD the most (I imagine the frequency range is better with this source), but FM/Sat and Pandora can also be distorted sources.
I have taken the vehicle back three times for this issue; I got the vehicle Dec 10th, 2012.
The first I wasn't prepared right, I let the service writer go to easily that it was bad source material.
The second time around Christmas, we tried the material in a different new Lexus with ML, and then in mine. The service writer and tech seemed to "get the issue" this time. They also understood how to recreate the issue on demand. They ordered a new sub. I was told that the replacement would require a half day as they had to remove the back seat to install this.
The third time, after the holidays, I dropped the car off and got a loaner. I was called after lunch that they were told by Lexus not to install the new speaker as it would not address the issue. I was not told much other than Lexus is investigating the issue. The dealer may hear something tomorrow or sometime in the unknown future.
This is my fourth Lexus, seventh Toyota/Lexus. It's the second time I have purchased/leased the premium radio option (the last time it was in a SC300 and by Nakamichi). I am regretting the purchasing decision due to this feature and also this issue. I am embarassed to take co-workers or friends in "the new car" due this issue.
I realise I am jaded as the car is really comfortable and quiet when I drive it. The audio system is what I hear 90% of the time when I am driving and I am not able to enjoy a premium vehicle due to this issue.
Cheers
It sounds like the cross-over/amplifier is sending more than lower frequencies to the sub-woofer.
I can recreate the distortion on demand using a audio reference CD Bass 305 which I acquired when a audio retailer went out of business.
While parked, on a source with +/-0 Tre +/-0 Mid, +/- 0 Bass at >40 audio loudness, with ASL and DSP Enabled audio distortion occurs.
While drinving at highway speeds, with the same settings, bass audio distortion is present at >37 audio loudness. I imagine ASL to be the cause for the delta.
Disabling DSP seems to also alleviate the issue by 2-3 audio loudness ticks.
I have witnessed distortion via CD the most (I imagine the frequency range is better with this source), but FM/Sat and Pandora can also be distorted sources.
I have taken the vehicle back three times for this issue; I got the vehicle Dec 10th, 2012.
The first I wasn't prepared right, I let the service writer go to easily that it was bad source material.
The second time around Christmas, we tried the material in a different new Lexus with ML, and then in mine. The service writer and tech seemed to "get the issue" this time. They also understood how to recreate the issue on demand. They ordered a new sub. I was told that the replacement would require a half day as they had to remove the back seat to install this.
The third time, after the holidays, I dropped the car off and got a loaner. I was called after lunch that they were told by Lexus not to install the new speaker as it would not address the issue. I was not told much other than Lexus is investigating the issue. The dealer may hear something tomorrow or sometime in the unknown future.
This is my fourth Lexus, seventh Toyota/Lexus. It's the second time I have purchased/leased the premium radio option (the last time it was in a SC300 and by Nakamichi). I am regretting the purchasing decision due to this feature and also this issue. I am embarassed to take co-workers or friends in "the new car" due this issue.
I realise I am jaded as the car is really comfortable and quiet when I drive it. The audio system is what I hear 90% of the time when I am driving and I am not able to enjoy a premium vehicle due to this issue.
Cheers
Last edited by calm; 06-14-13 at 12:44 PM.
06-14-13, 12:42 PM
#462
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Baseline analysis?
Have you created a list of source materials that are able to manifest the distortion to establish a baseline?
If so, can you share?
e.g.
CD Dark Knight Returns OST Track 5 0:28s
Volume >32 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
Driving 60 mph normal interstate daytime 75 degree 100% humidity normal weather
Volume >34 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
0 mph in driveway daytime 75 degree 100% humidity normal weather
CD Dark Knight Returns OST Track 15 0:42s, 47s, 51s
Volume >32 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
Driving 60 mph normal interstate daytime 68 degree 20% humidity normal weather
Volume >34 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
0 mph in driveway daytime 68 degree 20% humidity normal weather
If so, can you share?
e.g.
CD Dark Knight Returns OST Track 5 0:28s
Volume >32 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
Driving 60 mph normal interstate daytime 75 degree 100% humidity normal weather
Volume >34 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
0 mph in driveway daytime 75 degree 100% humidity normal weather
CD Dark Knight Returns OST Track 15 0:42s, 47s, 51s
Volume >32 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
Driving 60 mph normal interstate daytime 68 degree 20% humidity normal weather
Volume >34 Treble +0 Mid +1 Bass +1 ASL on DSP Off
0 mph in driveway daytime 68 degree 20% humidity normal weather
Sorry for not posting sooner.
So on Monday June 17th I take my car into the dealer. That day the new amp will be installed. Tuesday the 18th I have a meeting with two mark levinson engineers who flew out form Michigan and one rep from Lexus corporate. The purpose of this meeting is to resolve the distortion issue. I do not know if the engineers can do anything more than just listen and talk. What I expect to happen is, if I still don't like the sound of the car the Lexus rep will discuss my options with the ML engineers. The options may include a 3rd party installer will put in a sub that will be covered by Lexus, or ML themselves will modify my vehicle at the dealer to install a larger diameter sub or a non-shallow mount sub. I have no idea.
never the less, I will post back on the 18th after I get back to work after the meeting and tell you all how the new amp performs. Everything I have heard from Lexus who heard from ML in regards to feedback from the few people who have experienced the new amp is very positive. I have hopes they have improved the sound quality of the ES350 enough to not pursue a lemon law case.
So on Monday June 17th I take my car into the dealer. That day the new amp will be installed. Tuesday the 18th I have a meeting with two mark levinson engineers who flew out form Michigan and one rep from Lexus corporate. The purpose of this meeting is to resolve the distortion issue. I do not know if the engineers can do anything more than just listen and talk. What I expect to happen is, if I still don't like the sound of the car the Lexus rep will discuss my options with the ML engineers. The options may include a 3rd party installer will put in a sub that will be covered by Lexus, or ML themselves will modify my vehicle at the dealer to install a larger diameter sub or a non-shallow mount sub. I have no idea.
never the less, I will post back on the 18th after I get back to work after the meeting and tell you all how the new amp performs. Everything I have heard from Lexus who heard from ML in regards to feedback from the few people who have experienced the new amp is very positive. I have hopes they have improved the sound quality of the ES350 enough to not pursue a lemon law case.
06-15-13, 01:24 AM
#464
" I don't notice a huge difference"
You are absolutely correct, there is not a huge difference but there is a difference none-the-less. To some, it is worth it, to others not. Most get the vehicle without the ML and are fully satisfied with the Premium Sound system. It is certainly a very good 'base' system.
You are absolutely correct, there is not a huge difference but there is a difference none-the-less. To some, it is worth it, to others not. Most get the vehicle without the ML and are fully satisfied with the Premium Sound system. It is certainly a very good 'base' system.
06-17-13, 04:56 AM
#465
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Hey Guys,
So I picked up a new ES 300h on Friday. It's got the ML system in it too. I was *very* concerned that I'd run into the sub issue some have reported here. Being a big music guy, this was a major selling point of the car for me. After testing out the system with several of my "go-to" disks, I'm happy to report that I find NO issue at all with the sub. I'm getting lots of good deep, and defined bass. No distortion at all. In fact, I'm pretty happy with the audio system overall. Sorry to hear other guys here are having issues. That really sucks. Good luck!
So I picked up a new ES 300h on Friday. It's got the ML system in it too. I was *very* concerned that I'd run into the sub issue some have reported here. Being a big music guy, this was a major selling point of the car for me. After testing out the system with several of my "go-to" disks, I'm happy to report that I find NO issue at all with the sub. I'm getting lots of good deep, and defined bass. No distortion at all. In fact, I'm pretty happy with the audio system overall. Sorry to hear other guys here are having issues. That really sucks. Good luck!