GoHuskers

I think you are living the yesteryear. There are REAL ground effects on the 2012 Camry SE and it handles better than anything in its class.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^Well yes and no. The new SE does in fact have specific front and rear bumpers with the ground effects built in, the side ground effects are add-ons however. As far as the suspension goes, there is nothing new here, it's the same as all other Camrys with the exception of larger wheels. As far as handling, standard Camry stuff here.

Lou

AlexusAnja

Lexus has to be careful with throwing an "F" package on vehicles and giving it suspension upgrades without power upgrades. With M, AMG, and S models, they put in more power along with suspension, so you're getting a real sport package. The only true F thus far has been the IS-F. The GS and LS F-sports are just making a nice vehicle more harsh, without giving it better line performance, so what is the point? Throw the 5.0 into the GS and an even more HP tuned 5.0 into the LS, and now we're talking about true F. Lexus has to make sure not to degrade the F to being nothing but a letter and more $$$ for no performance.

Bdub215

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ.

pbm317

Incorrect. Camry SE has specific suspension pieces. Knuckle and lower arm assembly are stronger and lighter. Also sport tuned shock absorbers and springs, strut tower, and trunk-mounted braces.

pbm317

So.. one person. High power, Front Wheel Drive, Manual Transmission cars are pretty much dead in the water. Acura realized the TL was getting overpowered, and so the 6 speed is on the SH-AWD only.

GFerg

noncom23

I would love an F-ES.
Would be like a BMW 3 Series,
Sedan.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Not even close.
FWD and won't handle anywhere near the 3 Series even if the ES was RWD..

LexBob2

I agree. That's why Lexus has the IS in RWD, AWD and IS-F as well as the GS RWD, AWD and F Sport.

noncom23

Would buy an F ES if it provided a little
more Sportiness despite the suspension.
fwiw

kesando

Perhaps Lexus may consider and ES F-sport too?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/31/t.../#aol-comments

The only car I see an ES F-sport competing with is an Acura TL

AlexusAnja

the ES is too big to be a 3-series anything. Still... I'd take the ES over a 3 anyway.