sdcooke

i purchased the pre-owned certified vehicle at the end of 2010 with 35,000 miles. It was serviced religiously and regularly at my local Lexus Dealership's service department (the most recent servicing being the 90,000 mile one done in May). The car has 93,000 miles on it. That recent servicing revealed no major issues. Last month, after having driven a few hundred miles visiting friends on the East Coast, I was heading back home when the VSC light went on (but not the engine light). I stopped, checked the manual but continued to drive after since it did not appear to be a problem requiring immediate attention. Once I got back on the road, the engine light did go on, at which point I pulled over since the engine was also steaming. After having the car towed to a nearby Lexus dealership, a diagnostic showed a blown head gasket, melted upper intake valve and melted pistons. An additional diagnostic done at my local Lexus service department reaced the same conclusion. The certified warranty has already expired. Quoted cost for a new engine is in the $15K range. Lexus Customer Satisfaction is only willing to contribute $2K toward any engine work or $1K toward purchase of another vehicle. I'm monumentally frustrated. Has anyone had the experience of a water pump failure leading to engine failure?

jkayca

Water pumps don't usually just let go. There is almost always signs of problems ahead of time. Like being low on coolant, stains around the pump itself. The mechanics should have spotted this before it became a problem.

You will probably get a few responses about how you should be doing this yourself every other day. I call BS. You're paying a premium shop rate at a luxury car dealership to do this for you. Frankly, I'd threaten them with legal action.

DickBeyer

My 2007 ES 350, with 44,000 miles, was also diagnosed with a leaking water pump, which may be the preamble to the devastating problems you're having. It ws not discovered in the last 15,000 check. The electronics are also fizzling out, the center front speaker now sounds tinny, and all the brakes need replacing. Ironically, I thought I was moving up to a better auto than the Camry and Avalon, but my old Camry never had a major problem up to 130,000 miles. Only the tires and battery needed to be replaced. I advise other ES350 owners to be extremely vigilant since these cars can be bombs ready to fly apart.

chuyrobles

I take it you were not paying attention to the coolant temperature gauge? The temp needle must have been in the red if the engine was steaming. If the coolant temp gauge is not functioning properly, you would have a case against Toyota, but if it's functioning properly, and I suspect it is, there is no reason to expect anyone else to pay for your oversight. I do feel bad for you, but, you may have to concede negligence. IMO the $2K offer is generous.

In our ES350 the needle in the temp gauge is always dead center. The wife knows to pull over if it ever starts to head towards the red. And it happened once when the radiator sprung a leak at about 130K when she was driving home from work. She made it off the freeway before the needle got to the red. Car continues to march forward with an aftermarket radiator, and with the OEM water pump.

Blue Moose Engineering

Really good point. My brother-in-law drove their 2002 Avalon for about 15 miles on the freeway, in the red, smoking and steaming. Once you turn that car off it's done. It's been sitting in their driveway collecting dust ever since.

jbalian

the needle won't be on the red because the coolant sensor does not work when there's no coolant, it's a very very very stupid design.

Blue Moose Engineering

This is news to me. I always thought it was a basic thermocouple that tells you the temperature of whatever medium it is submerged in - water, air, etc. Are you talking about the coolant level sensor or the temperature sensor?

nguyent8

Hmm wonder why it's way too easy to die like that.

Recently I rented a Ford Transit van from Avis for a trip to Yosemite. We got a leak and the engine became overheated when we tried to climb a hill. It lost power gradually and refused to do anything and we saw vapor coming out. Opened front hood and saw no coolant left in the reservoir. The next day we put some new coolant in and it still works like no problem (of course we only drove when there was still some coolant inside).

jkayca

jbalain is correct - the temperature gauge won't show red. In fact, it may read colder as the levels of coolant drop. This is common in a lot of cars these days as the placement and design of the coolant temperature sensor is stupid. One of my previous cars dropped all of its coolant one day due to a blown hose. The temperature gauge read stone cold.

AFAIK, there's no coolant level sensor. Just a temperature sensor.

Blue Moose Engineering

That's a fairly terrible design indeed - but also, randomly losing all your coolant without overheating probably happens pretty rarely.

Paul3637

Take it to a Toyota dealer and have them install a used engine (it's the same V6 as Camry and Avalon). It should cost you about $3,000. That's what one ES owner did when her rubber oil line blew (she was one of the many with pre-May 2008 build engines with the oil line problem that was not on the recall list even though she should have been). In the end, Lexus reimbursed her because of their faulty VIN tracking system.

And talk about poor engineering, in many Toyota/Lexus forums there are plenty of people who burned up engines because the temperature gauge does not work when the car has no coolant. Amazing in this day and age of high tech everything, Lexus doesn't put in gauges for fluid levels. Same for oil level. With all the engines that burned out due to rapid loss of oil in the oil line issue, 99% said the oil light never even came on.

https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/

chuyrobles

I've heard this reasoning only in forums, never from manufacturers - that once coolant stops flowing past the temp sensor, the temp gauge stops reading high, and that there may actually be a sharp drop in temp on the gauge if coolant were to leak at a fast rate. I can picture the sharp drop but a slow leak, as it appears was the case here, the gauge would have displayed hot at one point. The TS does not even mention the temp gauge.

jkayca

True but it depends on the actual failure mode. The water pump can leak slowly at first and as long as there is sufficient coolant in the system, all will be fine. Periodically topping up the coolant levels will keep things going. For a while. We all know that small leaks become big leaks though and a sharp drop in coolant levels can occur.

My main point is that the problem with the ES350's water pump is a well known issue. It's a problem with all Toyotas (Sienna, Camry) that use the same engine. The technicians at the dealership should have spotted this before it became a major problem.

mrh1965

That sucks. I don't know how you didn't know the pump was failing -- mine was making one hell of a racket and drinking coolant -- but every situation is different, I guess. If you like the car, I'd talk to an independent shop in the area about installing a used or rebuilt Toyota 3.5 in it. They've made a million of them by now, maybe more, literally.

mrh1965

Hilarious.