rebel7254

Welllll.....I'm pretty young and inexperienced when it comes to buying cars. I've only bought two (counting the ES 350 I bought earlier this month).

I was looking on the net and ran across an 08 ES 350 with 12,800 miles and Navigation. It had everything on it but Mark Levinson sound, the rear sun roof and the adaptive radar cruise control. It was listed at $25,995. Only catch is it was over 4 hours away. I checked the free CARFAX report. Only one owner and a couple of very minor maintenance issues reported. Thinking that was a pretty good deal and not wanting it to get away, I took off at 2 pm and drove down there. It was dark and damp outside when I drove it, but I could tell that I really liked the car and also became quite fond of the touch screen navigation/climate/audio system. It had 13k miles and the exterior was flawless as far as I could tell. I traded in my Altima for $9,500 and after the dealer refused to budge on the asking price, I agreed to buy. He said he wouldn't come down on the price because he said he was giving me a good deal on my trade (which is true according to kbb and NADA...the exterior had some noticable dings and scratches, plus rattles in the interior). I drove it home that night, confident I had made a good buy. It isn't Lexus certified, but still has several months "bumper to bumper" plus a few years of powertrain left.

Now comes the bad news. While messing around online some more when I got home, I stumbled upon some reports that if the car was sold at an auction, CARFAX would often not report it when the car had been damaged. This made me nervous because although there were no accidents on the CARFAX, it did say the vehicle was bought by the dealer at an auction. I went ahead then and paid to get an Autocheck report on the car. Sure enough, it said something like "vehicle reported as having structural damage at auction".

I called a local body shop, and a man there said if I brought the car by he would be able to tell if it had been worked on. He then proceeded to show me all the places where there was evidence the car had been wrecked and repaired. He said judging from the places showing signs of repair, there was a significant impact to the right-front part of the vehicle. The left-front vendor had been replaced, part of the front bumper re-painted, the passenger door was still original but had been repaired and re-painted. I can very easily see now that the curve of the passenger door pops out just a little too much so that if you look at the car from the front at a 45 degree angle, you can see the gap between the front and rear passenger doors isn't exactly right. With his help I was also able to see the difference in the paint, but it's barely noticable and he said they did a pretty good job with it.

He told me that although the evidence was very obvious to him, he had seen much worse and told me he didn't think the damage was extensive enough to make the car unsafe or anything like that. The only thing I might have tweaked at some point is the front passenger door doesn't shut quite as easily as the others.

Like I said, the car drives great and I certainly don't notice anything out of place when driving it (and believe me I'm picky about the ride of a car). With that being the case, assuming I never experience any actual negative effects from the previous wreck, do you think $26k was way too much to pay for it?

I have learned my lesson now, and will definitely make sure I get BOTH a CARFAX and Autocheck report before I buy in the future. Hopefully I won't have to worry about that for several years though.

jkutti2000

no.. it wont help. I have seen many cases like yours.. the cars are picked up before they can be declared as SALVAGE or accident reported.. its a big rip off. Insurance companies work with Auto dealers.. moral of the story.. dont TRUST carfax always. SEE if it is a major damage. then its declared salvage.. but when there are minor accidents. ITS GRAY AREA and INSURANCE Cos can operate how they wish.
infact I have seen many times cars been sold and it is mentioned that the title is clear. meaning they are giving u a full hint. to fix it and NO ONE WILL KNOW. ha ha

the best way is to buy from a current owner or a lease return which is returned exactly 3 years after put in service( not out of turn)... I think you should be fine. now another problem for u..
when u go for warranty to lexus.. if it concerns any part which has body damage, they wont honor it.. they should honor warranty for rest of the car..

rebel7254

Yes, I figured that would be the case. I really don't think there will be anything to fix besides a possible adjustment to the door that I mentioned before. If it just can't be fixed exactly right, then I can live with it. I'm just kinda bummed because I drove away thinking I made a really good buy, and maybe I still did if I go on to drive the car for several years without negative fallout from the previous damage.

KA8

iTrader: (1)

Yea got ripped. Never buy a car at night. There's a reason why cars like these did not end up at dealerships.

rebel7254

It was a pre-owned dealership. I did call them afterwards and they claimed ignorance, saying they were just going by the CARFAX when they bought it.

QuachmanES

iTrader: (4)

Another tip... Settle on a price for the car before you do the trade in. That way you get the right price for the new (to you) car instead of a price based on the trade-in value.

rebel7254

So the question remains, again assuming I don't suffer any substantial consequences from the previous wreck, was $26k a bad price? Maybe it is just because of the region I live in, but an 08 ES350 premium plus with 13k mi for that price range seems quite difficult to find. Most others I have seen online which similar criteria are near or over $30k.

LexPaul

Well one thing you’re right about is the trade in value, I just checked and your numbers are on spot. Let’s say $25,000. Unfortunately there is a big BUT. This vehicle has been in an accident, has structurally damage, this will cause the value to drop dramatically. I would not be surprised if the value dropped by several thousand dollars. I’d say $18K would be about right. We live and learn, the ES is a great car, and you say it drives okay. I can only hope that you don’t have any major issues with it. Yes, the dealer made out like a bandit, it was unfair to you. There is not much you can do now, but on the bright side you do have some warranty. I would not give this Lexus dealer any additional business.

AlGator

Ouch!

The dings, scratches and rattles should have been the first red flag, those alone would've been a deal killer for me. At that price level I don't want to see any damage inside or out, its usually a good indication the car had a rough life. Condition should been consistent with mileage.

For $26,000 you could have picked up a low mile CPO Lexus from a reputable dealer.

As mentioned, never inspect a used car at night, especially in the rain and never buy the same day.

A little late but here is a good site for new/used car buying advice:
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/used.htm

rebel7254

I was referring to my trade-in when talking about the dings/scratches/rattles.

dman00001

I'm sorry to say but this should have been the first red flag. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. That said, I did a similar thing recently by purchasing an 07 Ultra Luxury package w/60k miles for less than 20k. That's about 5k below retail blue book for my area. I made sure to give it a good inspection in bright daylight myself (I used to work on cars) and I bought it from a VERY reputable Volvo dealer known for quality cars. It was a one owner and just off a 3 year lease with all service records available. It was the only Lexus they had on the lot and they were sitting on it three months so I think they just wanted to get rid of it. I took a chance as well but so far so good. Good luck with yours... with some luck you'll have many years of problem free enjoyment.

MDames2

iTrader: (1)

You could spend a lot of time fretting about your decision. But I think you should just enjoy the car. If, as the independent body shop stated, the car was repaired well, you shouldn't have a problem. I purchased my 2007 ES350 new in November 2006. Two years later I got into a significant accident. There was serious damage to the front end. The total repair was about $13,000. It took nearly six weeks to get the car back. The body shop did an excellent job. Although I'm sure a trained eye could see that my car was repaired, I cannot see it at all. Everyone I know can't see it either. It has been two years and the car runs and looks perfect. I have had no issues at all. As far as the price goes, that's water under the bridge. You probably could have done better. You'll learn from this one. But for now, enjoy the car.

f80d

To all my friends,

I owned a premium used car dealership for several years. Do not, for any reason, buy a car that was sold at auction. You can't imagine the risks. Buy only from a reputable Lexus dealer, or from the original owner. The dealer must, in writing, assume all risks for undisclosed damage (ie not disclosed in a Car Fax) If they won't, walk. If they're concerned, then you should be as well. These people are skilled professionals in their field, you are not. If you buy off lease, insist on talking to the original owner, and comparing notes.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
f80d

beneteau

Automobile dealers have sold and purchased autos at auctions for as long as I can remember and I'm 67yo. Just because a car is in an auction doesn't necessarily mean it's been damaged.

Also for $26,000, you could have purchased a late model LS430 loaded with options, which, when new, listed for $65,000 to $75,000.

Wife sold her ES300 (2000 model) last year and bought a 2005 LS430 with 58,000 miles with an extended warranty for $23,000.