smguely

This is my debut post on this forum. I am ready to get rid of my Cadillac. This is my second one and my last. I have been hunting for an ES 350 but am unsure of the Lexus market and unsure how to negotiate. I have been successful at 10% - 15% on my american made vehicles but am totally new to the Lexus scene. I don't understand how people (and dealers) can be asking $32,000-$36,000 for a 2009 with 20,XXX miles, when I would think you could get a new one (with nav) for $36,000 -$37,000. No one wants to budge off their price. This is crazy! I hate buying new. I always regret it a few years down the road. But... that is with american vehicles where they are worth half what you paid two years later. But if I have to spend in the $30k's I'll just buy new. I have enjoyed Balgado's post about buying a new 350. But I need some help on what a good deal on one of these things is. New OR Used. Is there a favored dealer for this site? I want Smokey Granite gray and Nav. That's my only criteria. So, if the sticker on a 2010 is $41,000, I would say $35,000 would be an outstanding deal at 15% off MSRP. Would you all agree? And how can I find out dealer invoice? I can wait a bit to bet a deal on the last 2010's but would think I could do better than 15% with last year's stock. I will not be financing the vehicle and I will pick up the car or have it shipped if it makes sense.

Thanks for your input!

Shane

JRey350hou

I can tell you w/o a shadow of doubt that you wont get 15 % disc of new 2010.
If you get 10-11% disc from msrp consider it an excellent deal. They have Invoice @ 9.5 % disc from Msrp. Good Luck !!

lgb0250

Start with this link. Once you have filled it out and get what the invoice price is go to the second link and do it again to see what you can actually buy one for from them. Then I would start negotiations at least $1K below that price from a local dealer. This time of year it's hard to believe there's not some type of factory to dealer incentives out there that the general public knows nothing about. Good luck.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2011/lexu...3/options.html

http://www.carsdirect.com/

EJC

The mark up on an ES350 is roughly $4.5-$5K.
So a car stickered @ $41K would be roughly $36+ on invoice.
I may be off slightly but this should be pretty close.
The dealer has a 2-3% holdback as well so that givres the dealr another $800-1000 to play with, if they want.

I think you'll find the dealers are less inclined to give up the holdback than American car dealers.

You can go to Carpoint.com or KBB.com to get a comparison of invoice to MSRP.

I think that you will also find that the resale on Lexus holds up better than Caddys

wetgravity

Um, invoice is not $36k on a $41k msrp. It's more like $39 and you don't get any better then invoice unless they have coupons, which they don't right now. The domestic brands are heavily laden with rebate, bonus cash, etc because domestic buyers expect them and the dealers have to have some way to hold gross. The import, lexus, bmw, audi do not have to entice you to their product and therefore they are either pricing their discount off msrp or just invoice. I buy cars for living, bought 10 Lexus this year including my own, so take that for what it's worth. Go buy a new Lexus, ask for invoice and be happy with it...the 2011 will not be offered at invoice. The Lexus will hold it's value as you have obviously found out by looking at preowned models.

By the way, if you are in the Texas area and want to see the actual invoice, email me and I'll help you out.

JRey350hou

I totally agree with most all Wetgravity states . especially in that Lexus/BMW dont usually disc @ high levels but imo this is great time to purchase with economy where it is. But more specifically on invoive--purchased this yr 2010 w/ Nav plus alll xtras --msrp 41,510 and invoice they showed me was 37,630 ( he wanted to sell me car...since I was in Dallas but live in Houston suburbs ). I checked thru two other sources and invoice was right in line with hard copy they showed. Purchased veh @ 100.00 below inv.( 9.8 % off msrp ) again inv will be in 9.5 % range of course not including incentives they can still make on car--holdback, days on lot, etc. Just recently Lexus was offering 1000.00 in coupons on top of agreed sales price. Saw some ex. on Edmunds where buyers were in 11-11.5% disc and 1.9 % interest so as stated excellent time to purchase as long as you/dealer are reasonable there are cars to be sold. good luck or keep the Caddy .

SteadyEddy

iTrader: (1)

Welcome I have to say that they do charge plenty for their used cars. That's the reason we bought a new 07 ES instead of a used 07. The difference was only a few bucks, so we figured what-the-heck go for new. Now would probably be a good time to be looking. Go for it. Hope you are successful in you quest.

EJC

Check KBB a '10 ES350 w/ sticker of $41,110, has an invoice of $36860

*Batman*

Once the 2011s hit the lots that will be the new model. Those you will be able to get for 88% of MSRP if you run a disciplined negotiation. I did that when the 2009 ES350 first came out. I know others did with 2010s as well.

So once that happens, you should be able to get a 2010 for around 3k less which would put it at around 82% of MSRP.

If you look up historical transactions on the ES350-Prices Paid section on Carspace.com, you will see evidence to validate what I am saying.

smguely

Thank you all for all the input. I have tried to buy several over the internet with zero luck. Most will not move off their price even $500.00. I suppose my best bet is go back to the local dealer and work out a deal on a new one and hope for 9% off msrp. I don't understand how these dealers stay in business with that tight of margin. Perhaps the thing to do is to buy new and trade every 2-3 years. Sounds like I could get into a new one without much money out of pocket. Maybe the dealer will trade my 2010 for a 2012 + $4,000 since the dealers feel that makes total sense on their used pricing. I say that sarcastically... somewhat. I'll keep trying on a used one a little bit longer, but I am close to giving up.

CJS57

Where are you? Call my friend Bill at Prestige Lexus in New Jersey. He is the internet salesperson there. You will not find a better deal. I don't understand the used or left over deals either? That is why I bougbt new for a few thousand more.

EJC

How close/far are the dealers?
How many dealers in your area?

I've tried this with some success. I'll call around and tell the sales rep I'm x miles away and I'm not driving x miles just to turn around and go home. here's what i want in the car and what I want to pay. If necessary they have put the sales manager on the phone we basically have done the deal on the phone. I just had to show up, take it for a drive, sign the papers and drive it home. I've done lease and purchase this way.

*Batman*

What the guy in the previous post says is correct.

You can't expect to get the car for 12% off by just making an offer and hoping he takes it. You need to run a disciplined negotiation. Tell them you live far away and can't come to the dealership. Tell them that for the right deal you are prepared to fax a credit card deposit authorization to them right away if they agree to your price.

Then make an offer and stick to your guns. At first all dealerships will say no. They will say its the beginning of the model year and try to direct you to a closeout model. You should hold firm. There are a couple that will start calling you and testing various offers. You hold your stance and tell them if they agree to price you offered you will fax over the credit card authorization. Eventually, and usually in the last week of the month, they will acquiesce.

When I did this, both dealers agreed to the price on the last Friday of the month. I picked the one who had recieved the car from Jacksonville that very day as opposed to the one who had it on the lot for a while.

If you want a 2010 I think you should wait till October. Once the 2011 hits the lot, Lexus will provide an incentive on the 2010s and you will be able to buy that for at least $1500 below invoice.

wetgravity

Is KBB as accurate with their new car invoices as their used car values? I'll go back and pull the invoice and let you know either way, I may be wrong...but nonetheless, invoice is the best deal out there now on the Lexus. By the way, I would cll a Lexus store in California...if you are willing to fly out for a better deal sometimes it makes sense. Lexus of Westminster is where I have bought a few....it just depends on the time of year and inventory.

*Batman*

I use the NADA website for invoice info.

However, I have often found that dealers deny the invoice price you quote and say its nonsense. So I have found it better to not mention the invoice price, and instead just focus on what you are offering them. If you feel a need to justify it, say you are aware of others who have bought the car at this price. Don't expect this to be a one conversation sale if you want a bargain. They try to make you doubt your facts and then pay more. Your strategy is to make them think they're going to lose the sale and then take the offer.

Regarding their margins, they get something like $200 every month the car is on the lot as a holdback, and in addition they make money on doc fees. So even at invoice they are making money.

Buying from cali is a great idea. If you can get the car below invoice in cali (which is common) you can have it shipped to east coast for $700-1000.