n2cars

I've had my car about 2 weeks and love it. After perusing the engine bay for a few minutes yesterday and feeling a bit stupid for not being able to find the transmission dipstick, I swallowed my pride and pulled out the owner's manual. Fighting back a tear, I noticed that the tranny is sealed with no way for an **** owner to check or change the tranny fluid. Being "one of those owners" who changes tranny fluid every 25k miles, this rubs me the wrong way. I still love the car, but I can't help but think of day that I wrote off BMW for removing the oil dipstick. Is it just me?

onepointon

The fluid in the transmission is either considered longlife (100,000 mile fluid), or for the life of the vehicle. I cannot remember off the top of my head.

To check the fluid level you need a scan tool. The transmission needs to be heated between 104*-114*F and you need a datalist on the scan tool to see this, it is very important that its in the this heat range or else it wont be correct. In this range the drain plug is pulled out and the fluid is set to the correct amount on its own. I looks something like this (I will try my best).

I........(fluid)........I
I.(fluid).I I.(fluid)..I
I.(fluid).I I.(fluid)..I
I______I I______ I


Imagine (try to) that this is your transmission pan. The center row is a tube that goes up inside the transmission pan. Anything on that top line (above the tube) will come out, resulting in a precise level. Ok, i know that diagram is crap, please dont joke on me too hard. I'm just trying to explain it.

Basically, don't worry about it. Its one of those things thats hard to let go, but its for the better. The fluid is EXPENSIVE and has to be a certain type (Toyota World Standard).

Hopefully that helps and wasnt a total lose. Maybe a good 'dont worry about it' would of been ok, but atleast you have SOME understanding of 'why'.


EDIT: The more I think about it, I can see part of the reason being to prevent customers and independant shops from installing the wrong type of fluid and damaging the transmission. It is very important to the life of the transmission that it has that special fluid.

dreyfus

I've always kept my cars until the 250,000 mile mark before trading them in (I get my money's worth). Having lifetime transmission fluid is very scary for me. I just don't see how any lubricating fluid for a transmission can last that long.

Having to pay a dealer the big bucks just to change out my tranny oil is also something I'm not happy about.

onepointon

You avoid paying the dealer the big bucks by not having to change it. I have seen plenty of 150,000 mile + LS430's with the same style transmission that are fine. Just put trust into the system, it works.

Rollin'ES3

The ES350 really has no dipstick?

Life long fluid??

I feel like a noob. Im hearing these things for the first time.

350Dave

onepointon

Thanks for putting a professional viewpoint on CL - it is refreshing to have insight into some of the tech questions on this forum. As you see, there are a few who are all too eager to bash Lexus/Toyota, sometimes for no good reason.

onepointon

I have been lurking around for quite some time actually. It is disappointing to see some of that, not necessarily in this thread though. Did you see the thread in the GS forum over the dash rattles titled "Bridgewater Lexus - Rattles"?

Lexus, from what I have seen from both my dealer, other dealers, and from my training classes, is a very good, customer oriented company. I love working for them and plan to for a very long time. I just hate to see when people are treated badly at a dealer, misinformed, or upset about nothing.

ES350Bob

I have not seen anyone eager to bash Lexus/Toyota, rather frustrated with lack of resolution or reacting to total BS fed them on an issue or chronic lingering issues left as is.

Like being told knocking noise is the result of now using a timing chain for goodness sake and other BS fed people which some parrot.

I looked at the rattle thread you mentioned, and I can see where the input of as though techs are taught to say things comes from, maybe some of it is over the top, but the rattle issue and need for resolution is a real one and I personally experienced the never heard of it, so there is a pattern of this being done to customers.

As for n2 and dreyfus desire for a dipstick or ability to change it, more dreyfus, it is a no brainer those boys would want to be able to check their own trans fluid level or have it replaced wherever they wished, even themselves doing it. I translate a member name like n2cars to mean the guy is flat into them, how they work and what's in them. dreyfus, gifted at figuring things out and naturally curious from my observations of his input. Makes sense to me they'd want access to the trans fluid and if I built cars I'd add some mechanism that at least lets them see the fluid level is fine.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Bob, there most definitely are some like that. And there are others that have reached the point of frustration as you say such that they view everything with a sinister and accusatory eye. And there are brand fanboys that defend Lexus as if they never do anything wrong.

And then there are the majority of members who know reality is somewhere in between. I rely on those folks to keep this forum sane and rational .

I think the changing technology of sealed engine parts, inaccessible plastic-covered engine bays, etc is a growing trend those of us who like to work on their cars have been battling for a long time, and needs to become a 'checklist' item for purchasing a car in the future if it's very important to you. It is for me. If you're the type that can close the hood and rely on the car and the warranty, you're all good

ES350Bob

I'm not sold on these sealed systems myself though not likely to have it be a make or break issue for a purchase, but I can totally understand why people like yourself and others would want the ability to see things and/or do things for themselves.

I think sealed systems are going to end up like the stainless steel trend in kitchens, sounds good, seems neat, may in general be ok and not a problem, until sort of like the desire to check for yourself, people try to put their kids artwork or important reminder notes on a fridge of stainless and the magnets don't work on real stainless steel

onepointon

Did some digging a few minutes ago. This is what I found regarding the fluid type. The refill procedure was a 5 page document and complicated. Plus I didnt find it necessary to upload due to the fact that you need a scantool to do it anyway.

codex57

Lots of luxury cars are moving towards the long life tranny fluid.

And when did BMW remove the oil dipstick? My 3 series had one. But it too had the long life tranny fluid.

n2cars

Yep, as my callname implies and as ES350Bob figured out, I am flat out 'into cars'. My dad passed the virus on to me at the young age of 8 when he drug home a flooded out 1968 Buick and we proceeded to strip it to the bones and build it back up. Before the seatbelt laws, Dad and I logged many miles driving/sitting on paint cans while the soggy interior aired out in the garage. 35 years and many, many cars later, I still haven't lost the bug.

While I don't like the idea of not being able to check the tranny fluid, I'll get over it. I'm by no means bashing Lexus for catering to the 99% of the population who would rather scratch transmission fluid off the list of things to worry about. I can't fault them for that.
I'll find something else to tinker with in the garage. I can still change the fluid in my 2000 es300. That's been a great car too and is one of the reasons I bought another Lexus.

codex57

Most car owners can barely change the oil. Yeah, means it's hard to blame car manufacturers for trying to minimize the amount of maintenance owners are required to do.

Unfortunately, it seems real hands on car enthusiasts are a dying breed. I mean, even the mechanics are called "techs" now cuz there's so much that is run by computers. It's very odd seeing my mechanic bro-in-law come up with a Toughbook laptop when he says he wants to do "inspect" the car. Hardly do any visual inspections nowadays.

toneman

Well at least Lexus can't fault us for knowingly drive around w/ low transmission fluid prior to its' required fluid replacement schedule if it turns out that the fluid level is indeed low, since we (vehicle owners) would have no way of knowing if fluid level is a bit low (but not low enough to trigger some kind of warning message).