ncblue

Robert J. I used the 5x7's because the mid range was more detailed. these speakers are full range and the factory receiver is configured to send the full signal, I also used a diffiferent cap on the tweets to eliminate the tinny sound the comes with the factory tweets.The 6.5's have more of a mid base so I used them in the rear. Mounting depth 3" front and 3" rear the tweet was 1". I'm not considering replacing the sub, the polk's make the lows sound deeper, adding to the area of bass that was missing! All speakers were 4 ohms. The speaker magnets were about 2 inches round (very small), and the tweets fit the dash fine!

justbass

First post, so hello to all.

I am still researching buying the ES, and I would definitely get the ML.

An after-market high-end car audio outlet should be able to discuss and install a decent system.

My comments come from my own home stereo research; hope it applies here.

The tweeters are mounted high in the dash (and aimed) to point towards your ears, they produce sound that is quite direct, and for this reason they are installed as high as possible.

Subs are omni directional and can be place most anywhere within the space. Yes, there is an optimum placement; of course, in a vehicle there are limitations.

The mids, I would guess, should be considered somewhere in between the tweeters and the sub, where else would you put them?

The 3db change is reported to be detected by the ear, and to be twice as loud, the power required is 10 fold vice doubled.
Resistance that the amp can drive and number of channels of the basic system is a factor as well. I would have wanted this info before considering which speakers to purchase.
I hope this helps someone, I don’t have an electrical background, and I am just a hobbyist as far as this subject goes.

Robert_J

But a lot of people don't know a high end shop from one that does boom and sizzle installs.

The dash is the worst place for the tweeters if your mids are in the doors. 1. The distance between the speakers is too much. You don't get a single point source for your sound. 2. The relative distance between your ears and the speakers is greater. The passenger speaker is over twice the distance as the driver speaker. This causes the driver speaker to sound louder. 3. The tweeters are closer to your ears than the mids. Sound levels drop 3db as the distance doubles. Tweeters are naturally louder (unless dampened with the crossover) than the mids. Now they are closer and much louder.

And yes, all of this is applicable in home systems. When building speakers we look at the center to center spacing, crossover points and phase relationships between drivers. Most car systems, including the high end factory models, ignore all of these rules so that the system does not stand out visibly.


Pretty much correct.

The kick panels. Along with the tweeters. Q-Logic has the correct idea with their enclosures. It gives you a single point source for the sound as well as making the relative distance between the speakers and your ears closer (the driver speaker is not twice as close as the passenger speaker. It may only be 1.5 times the distance) A kick panel install would never pass the wife approval test in our ES-350. She will sacrifice quality for it to look good. My home theater is just the opposite. My wife has no say in the fact that my speakers sit out 2 feet from the wall or my sub looks like and weighs as much as a refrigerator.

Me too.

-Robert

justbass

I would think that the optimal position would be to have both the tweeter and mids in the dash pointing towards the listeners for soundstaging and imaging.
I had sat in the rear of the ES and experienced decent soundstaging, actually surprising for a sedan.

I won't comment further on this subject, for I think it would be too far off-topic.


(I am running an Arcam AVR300 receiver and a DV78 cd/dvd player, with Hyperion 938s, sounding quite good )

Cheers

MWLex1

If the sound system is important to you, why don't you consider buying the Acura TL? The basic (only) sound system that you get with the TL is as good as the ML or better, and you would save at least $5,000.

amf1932

That's a matter of opinion.......I heard them both, and I prefer the ML system over the Acura's......by a large margin!

coffee7

There are two reasons I didn't seriously consider the Acura TL, although I agree the good sound system at the TL price was tempting. First, I don't like the way Honda/Acura vehicles lack low-end torque, requiring more of a heavy foot for a power surge. Secondly, the Acura/Honda suspension is too stiff for my taste. But I'm paying a heavy price with the ES sound system.

coffee7

Thanks so much for this info, ncblue. I am the original poster of this thread and this is what I've been wanting to find out. I now want to find out how to distinguish a "high-end" shop from a "boom and sizzle" shop (I'm assuming that's a derogatory term for a "low-end" shop).

Ncblue, when you have the time, we'd like to hear more of how much better the speakers sound. Maybe it would help to mention specific music you like and how the new set-up enhances that music. Anyhow, thanks for sharing - you're the first one who's actually done something about it!

coffee7

[QUOTE=Robert_J;2729372]But a lot of people don't know a high end shop from one that does boom and sizzle installs.

Okay, Robert, how do I tell the difference? There's a shop that just opened a few blocks from where I live and it would be very convenient - but you've got me curious about how to size them up. They did a very low-key and attractive remodel of an old service station - in other words, it doesn't look trashy.

Robert_J

They should have a photo album of their installs. Are they all in Crown Vics with wagon wheels and multiple TV monitors? That's not a place you want to go. Look for nicer cars with low-key installs. They won't all be like this but they should have examples of a few.

Look at the equipment they sell. I hate to say it but if they sell JL, then they are probably better than most. JL prides themself on quality and the shop will probably have some quality installers. Any place selling Pyramid or other flea market brands should be avoided.

Finally, talk to the salesguy/installer about what you want and what he recommends. Then ask us here if he sounds credible. If you want a 2nd forum opinion, try the guys a DIY Mobile Audio. They lean heavily into DIY installs but they are also a no BS group. If your installer is trying to take advantage of you, they will let you know.

-Robert

VMon

Just joined this Club Lexus...

I'm buying an ES 350 today with Prem+, w/o Nav. The price is $31,700 plus $695 for installed satellite radio and $885 for alloys dipped 3 times (ha!) in chrome.

After reading your concerns with the radio speakers (no wonder they didn't play it when I test drove it), I'm wondering if I should even buy the car, or at least ask for the Levinson at cost...or maybe go after market at Beach Sound in Huntington Beach.

You also had some comments on the XM. They are putting in at what they say is their cost for the radio and labor for installation.

Your advice?

Any other items to be wary of before I go there? I'm sure they'll hit me up with other stuff in finance. Oh, since I'm buying, I'll need gap insurance, won't I?

Also, may I have your opinion on exterior and interior colors. I'm looking for the richest look with the least maintenance.

Robert_J

XM - I was going to order it from Lexus Parts dot com (or something close to that) for $299. I mentioned that in the ordering process and they ended up installing it by mistake. We settled on $385 for it installed.

The ML system required some additional package that I was not willing to pay for. I think the UL or something. The base system is not bad. It's just not what I would expect in a car of this type. Like I've stated earlier, when the "new" has worn off (as determined by my wife) then I will install a new system. I will start with speakers and work my way through amps and subs. ncblue's posts have been the most helpful in this thread. All I need now is the location of the factory amp(s).

-Robert

coffee7

Thank you very much. This is very helpful advice. I will definitely start paying attention to what kinds of cars they have sitting around until I'm ready to make my move. Like you say, I'm going to wait for the "new" to wear off first!

Crawn

Further good discussions. My thanks. I've thrown in the towel. I've got the standard audio system with nav. Late last week, I had my Lexus dealer pull out the XM Satellite hardware manufactured by Pioneer. It was the dealer that installed it to begin with. The dealer's sales department is crediting me the cost and sending check.

Come Monday, I'm having a fully compatible XM Satellite system re-installed by a commercial party that specializes in customizing car audio solutions. If you will, like the "garage boys" mentioned in previous thread. For the life of me, I can't remember the system name but I got the information either from previous threads here or over on the Edmonds Lexus site. Anyway, I'll give a full report in a week or two. With the fully integratable system, the audio level will sync to the audio levles of the radio or CD, etc. It also claims to allow Ipod integration through the car controls. I hoping for more consistent pick up of signal from its antenna.

Additionally and likely more importantly, I'm having an Audison SRX5 amplifier installed. They'll put it in the trunk in one of the tool kit areas. They are adament that more amplification is the way to go over upgrading speakers. That went against my layman's wisdom. However, this shop has been in business for a long time, so am electing to go with their knowledge. (FYI, their "picture book" showed Minnesota Viking installs, etc.) This amp allows allows for crossover and independent channel adjustment. One can Google it for more information. I'll also give a full report on it in a week or two. The work is being done July 9.

Cost of the XM switchover is a push with the dealer install cost. Cost of the amp installed will be close to the original cost if I'd bought the ML system.

MD350

I have to agree with Alan, I owned an 04 TL and the ML system is better than the TL in my opinon. But, the base stereo in the ES (non ML) is not up to par in my opinion. The TL base stereo is better than the ES base radio.

Also, the ride on the ES is much softer than the "butt bruiser" ride of the TL. But, the tranny on the TL is crisp and smooth. Shifts better than the ES. But, the ES has a richer interior.

Geez, could we get the best of both cars and put them together into one?? I'd be the first in line to buy one!