Will daily ES 350 negative dumps continue?
04-02-07, 01:31 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
04-02-07, 04:48 PM
#21
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People usually go to forums for information or to complain about an issue. Forums are for the most part full of folks with issues.
If everything worked as it should there would not be a need for them. At least not a smuch.
So take complaints with a grain of salt and also be wary of who is posting.
If you notice the Lexus, BMW, Acura forums, etc. there are actually very few active members as a percentage of customers. So if 30 people complain about an issue, we think millions of others are unsatisfied. This is simply not true. Just look at Japanese, American, and German auto sales. They are all still quite strong.
Life is too short, enjoy your car. None of them are perfect so don't look for perfection.
If everything worked as it should there would not be a need for them. At least not a smuch.
So take complaints with a grain of salt and also be wary of who is posting.
If you notice the Lexus, BMW, Acura forums, etc. there are actually very few active members as a percentage of customers. So if 30 people complain about an issue, we think millions of others are unsatisfied. This is simply not true. Just look at Japanese, American, and German auto sales. They are all still quite strong.
Life is too short, enjoy your car. None of them are perfect so don't look for perfection.
04-02-07, 05:05 PM
#22
1) Open your driver's window about 1/4 an inch and start driving. Don't close the window. (wind noise)
2) Get up to about 35 mph and throw your car into neutral for a second and then back into drive during acceleration. (flare)
3) Then imagine the sound of a Jetta TDI engine. (engine knock)
4) Take the car into service several times, only to be told it is normal. (poor customer service)
5) Tell me you would not be whinning??
I am happy to hear there are satisfied owners out there. But, there are many of us that need help in resolving the issues we have since we have no help from Lexus. So, instead of ridiculing all of us, please give us some advise as to how to handle this serious situation. You are all quick to jump on all of us and complain that we whine, but none of you have any solutions!! I am all ears, so what is the fix?? Tell the whinners how to make these cars run right.
This reminds me about people I work with. They complain about the job, but have no solutions to make it better.
So, what do we do?? Tell us so we can stop whinning....
This is no joke, this is a $40,000 investment that is not running right and we are all looking for help.
Smart *** comments are not needed. Thanks in advance.
Lastly, my car's only issue is the cold engine knock. I am speaking for those that have even more serious issues out there. I have experienced the flare on my two loaner cars, it is not something I would want on my own car.
I have my popcorn ready and am sitting in a recliner. I am waiting for some solutions. Please pass the butter and salt!
Last edited by MD350; 04-02-07 at 05:27 PM.
04-02-07, 08:49 PM
#23
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How much is enough? Dumping here is epidemic.
Certainly those posting here with unsolved issues should bring them to everyones attention and plead their case for solutions. I would do the same.
By posting the same disappointments thousands of times on this forum you are only punishing the rest of us - not Lexus.
For those of us who have none except minor issues sofar it is hard to imagine that Lexus has been able to produce a car model that on the one hand has no issues and on the other hand is rolling off models on the same production lines which they deliver in 'semi-kit' form. You have to admit that's not easy to do. Then to top things off, they don't supply final assembly instructions to their dealers for their car kits.
Furthermore, it is hard to imagine that owners have not been able to get a car that works after buybacks or 2 or 3 new transmissons.
The end result on this forum has been that those owners with issues have little tolerance for owners who post that they have a car with no or minor issues. Believe me those cars do exist.
Certainly those posting here with unsolved issues should bring them to everyones attention and plead their case for solutions. I would do the same.
By posting the same disappointments thousands of times on this forum you are only punishing the rest of us - not Lexus.
For those of us who have none except minor issues sofar it is hard to imagine that Lexus has been able to produce a car model that on the one hand has no issues and on the other hand is rolling off models on the same production lines which they deliver in 'semi-kit' form. You have to admit that's not easy to do. Then to top things off, they don't supply final assembly instructions to their dealers for their car kits.
Furthermore, it is hard to imagine that owners have not been able to get a car that works after buybacks or 2 or 3 new transmissons.
The end result on this forum has been that those owners with issues have little tolerance for owners who post that they have a car with no or minor issues. Believe me those cars do exist.
04-02-07, 09:10 PM
#24
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04-03-07, 05:10 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
MD,
chuckb will not be able to relate your suggestions to an ES350 because he does not own an ES350 and seems unaware that over 2/3 of our active members who actually do own one report an issue or issues and do not warrant being labeled whiners.
Gumball,
You seem unable to accept that defects can arise to the degree present in the ES350. Perhaps reviewing the comments of the president of Toyota/Lexus, Mr. Watanabe, may help you understand what he sees and which 2/3 of your co-members here who own an ES350 have indicated to you. Some might resort to calling Watanabe a whiner, a repeater, because he repeatedly expresses his dismay over the quality issues, quoted time and again in world press articles on the subject, and views them as a crisis and an emergency which makes anything us owners could report pale in comparison to his own view of the defects occurring. Mr. Watanabe will eventually clean house of the excuse makers, of those who diminish the degree or significance of issues, and when that time comes you will see fewer members reporting issues similar to input as you can currently see on the IS and GS forum where they are not plagued with issues. He seems to me to be both sincere and determined to clean up the quality issues impacting his customers in spite of the excuse makers.
"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," Watanabe said. "I want to apologize sincerely for the troubles we have caused. The world-class quality that we've achieved is our lifeline. There can be no growth without quality improvements."
"The majority of problems at Toyota are not with its manufacturing or assembly lines, but with something more fundamental: the design of some of their automobiles. Some 68% of Toyota automobile recalls in 2004 and 2005 have been attributed to design defects and flaws. Many of these, in the words of one senior Toyota engineer, were "bonehead" mistakes."
http://www.cutter.com/research/2006/edge060919.html
chuckb will not be able to relate your suggestions to an ES350 because he does not own an ES350 and seems unaware that over 2/3 of our active members who actually do own one report an issue or issues and do not warrant being labeled whiners.
Gumball,
You seem unable to accept that defects can arise to the degree present in the ES350. Perhaps reviewing the comments of the president of Toyota/Lexus, Mr. Watanabe, may help you understand what he sees and which 2/3 of your co-members here who own an ES350 have indicated to you. Some might resort to calling Watanabe a whiner, a repeater, because he repeatedly expresses his dismay over the quality issues, quoted time and again in world press articles on the subject, and views them as a crisis and an emergency which makes anything us owners could report pale in comparison to his own view of the defects occurring. Mr. Watanabe will eventually clean house of the excuse makers, of those who diminish the degree or significance of issues, and when that time comes you will see fewer members reporting issues similar to input as you can currently see on the IS and GS forum where they are not plagued with issues. He seems to me to be both sincere and determined to clean up the quality issues impacting his customers in spite of the excuse makers.
"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," Watanabe said. "I want to apologize sincerely for the troubles we have caused. The world-class quality that we've achieved is our lifeline. There can be no growth without quality improvements."
"The majority of problems at Toyota are not with its manufacturing or assembly lines, but with something more fundamental: the design of some of their automobiles. Some 68% of Toyota automobile recalls in 2004 and 2005 have been attributed to design defects and flaws. Many of these, in the words of one senior Toyota engineer, were "bonehead" mistakes."
http://www.cutter.com/research/2006/edge060919.html
04-03-07, 05:44 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
I have no doubt the ES350 is the best ES ever, there are just some first year bugs to work out. I had a good experience with the ES350....
Originally Posted by chuckb
I have a loaner ES350 right now and it's sweet. hardly any wind noise and it's fast, quiet and smooth. there is a slight vibration you can feel in the steering wheel at idle only, but I think I read that's normal because the ES350 has electrical controlled motor mounts???
I'll let you guys know if it knocks or if the tranny slips in the morning. I noticed no ticks or shifting problems after driving it all day today. I was not exactly easy on the car and it never acted up once. I'm impressed with the mid to top rpm power and the car overall. much nicer than the ES330.
I'll let you guys know if it knocks or if the tranny slips in the morning. I noticed no ticks or shifting problems after driving it all day today. I was not exactly easy on the car and it never acted up once. I'm impressed with the mid to top rpm power and the car overall. much nicer than the ES330.
Originally Posted by chuckb
alright here's an update on my loaner.
no knocking or ticking at cold start this morning. the engine was slightly louder when cold, but nothing I'd call excessive.
I tried going from P to R to P and back to R again and it did thump going into reverse the second time every time. I wouldn't say it's a violent thud, but I could feel/hear it.
no trans slipping or flaring between gears at all.
the build date on this car is 06/06.
I'm happy with this car and I think it's fine. I think once the first year bugs are worked out, these will be great cars.
no knocking or ticking at cold start this morning. the engine was slightly louder when cold, but nothing I'd call excessive.
I tried going from P to R to P and back to R again and it did thump going into reverse the second time every time. I wouldn't say it's a violent thud, but I could feel/hear it.
no trans slipping or flaring between gears at all.
the build date on this car is 06/06.
I'm happy with this car and I think it's fine. I think once the first year bugs are worked out, these will be great cars.
the 350 I was just driving had hardly any,much less wind noise than my 37k mile,01 GS430, and my 430 had both window runners(seals) replaced & driver side door seal replaced via warranty about 2 years ago.
04-03-07, 06:37 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
04-03-07, 06:56 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
Pardon me but IMO complaining about chimes and stating poor location of controls is DUMPING on the car, though seems to have been glossed over as such by some who ignore that dumping to post on supposed "dumping" by owners discussing defects. Those controls, chimes, things like that are part of the essence of the ES350 and are not defects, where engine or transmission defects, other, are not the ES350.