ES350Bob

I have personally waited 8 months to see a TSIB issued for:

Actual solution for the transmission
Engine knocking
Wind noise

That has not happened. I look at the IS and GS and they don't have to put up with these issues so the length of time I and many other ES350 owners have had to is absurd and inexcusable.

Next month will be a year the ES has been on the market without solutions offered many owners experiencing these defects and my patience is near at it's end.

Pursuing a buyback would require the defects be placed on vehicle service history record and once that is the case the car is valued far less in any trade situation. Roughly a 2 month process to see if buyback would even be offered.

If I trade the car without adding negatives to it's service history I don't risk taking a larger negative hit at trade time where the supposed normal characteristics are then used as negatives to devalue the trade offer on my car which happened to me once already with former ES350 supposed normal characteristics all of a sudden actually being viewed as the defects they always were and used as reasons to devalue the trade offer by an additional minus of 2,000 plus dollars.

If I just had knocking tapping engine and the wind noise I'd know exactly what to do here because no buyback offer would be made for those issues viewed as normal to have in the ES350 by Lexus.

Because I also have a hosed up transmission there is a chance it could be bought back for that reason but the hoops to go through, potential claim of cannot duplicate, other, now lately it seems where even video recordings are ignored, and no guarantee of not being ultimately told it's learning and being left stuck in this second one as stuck in the first one have me cautious about even trying that avenue for the length of time involved.

I had looked at the IS but just too sporty for me, the GS I would view as needing to be spending serious extra money simply in order to avoid problems in a vehicle that should not be there in the first place and I am not at all happy with rude and unprofessional, in my opinion greed based experiences visited on me by some at corporate as it is for me to feel excited about spending even more money or in general when I never got what I paid for to begin with.

Any thoughtful opinions or perhaps suggestions of alternatives I have overlooked would be appreciated.

amf1932

Personally, I think you're beating a dead horse. Frustrating as it is, and being a Lexus owner since 1991, I've seen many situations where the Lexus Corporation NEVER corrected problems, even though they were aware of them.
Here are just two that come to mind:

(1) Transmission shifting from 2002 thru 2006 ES models. Lexus tried ECU reprogramming, but it was NEVER corrected! To this day owners of these models are still griping about this. And this is after 5 years of production!

(2) Certain rattles(rear doors & dashboard), that started on the 2002 ES. Lexus came out with a TSB to correct these rattles, and you would assume that these problems would be corrected in the assembly of these cars in future models, but NO, it continued right up to the year 2006!

If you think that the 2008 ES will have your problems corrected, the only thing I can tell you from past experiences is, don't hold your breath.
The transmission flaring will continue, cold engine noises will continue, certain rattles will continue, wind noise will continue, etc, etc. But as always, these annoyances will only affect a teensie minority of new owners.

ES350Bob

I know from your input that the wind noise is a common and unresolved theme in these which I had missed in the older models of these 99 ES300 model and prior, and that is one reason that if i were experiencing only that or even add on the knocking tapping engine which is also somewhat as common a theme at least in the ES350 I would know the scope or should say limit of my options. I know that neither of those would allow a buyback, I'd be for certain left stuck and I know that neither will be addressed in the 08 release.

I have been exploring options, there is an aspect of resentment I have to losing serious money in trade in order to avoid defects as opposed to the defects being addressed especially when adding the transmission. The plus this time unlike my former ES350 is my service record is clear so the offer in trade has not seen that extra negative hit where they do then see the defects as actual defects, though as you can appreciate it is nowhere near what I paid for the car. Ons..., just jumped understanding more to life and took his lumps and that may be what I do too but it is an awkward spot to be in.

osokuko

Bob – you must have been reading my mind this morning. I agree with you no TSIB fixes for serious items that effect the resale value of a expensive car. But it came to me and why I didn’t think about this before escapes me. For myself I’ve spent the year chasing a pipe dream hope all the problems would be taken care of. Even got a replacement car - didn't work. Well why worry over it anymore. Look we are all going to want to sell this car at some time, we already know there’s no TSIB going to be released for the trans, sooooo your going to live with it anyway until you sell this car. So why even take it to the dealer for documenting, forget that, when the time comes to sell you’ll have a pristine perfect working car. No records of problems or concerns matter of fact your clueless about cars, let the dealership give you top dollar for a trade in and get out. I think the reason why there are so many happy people out there with good working cars and never show up here with concerns is because they do have problems but don’t worry over it or even care about flare trans (totally clueless) they just want a point A to point B car, there just going to live with this annoying trans that skips sometimes for a few years then sell and move on. Things are changing now I’m hearing from tech’s the flare is a characteristic of this transmission – they must be going to PR training classes now because they all say the same thing “I-Robot” say you can call Lexus or we can for you!

ES350Bob

We do seem on the same wavelength about this, it just hit me last night that IS and GS owners don't have this crap to deal with, no brainer other manufacturers don't have as a supposed norm vehicle characteristic wind noise/a.k.a. buffeting and engine knocking and the trans speaks for itself.

I have been negotiating a trade and YES leaving the car showing as having a pristine service history is a must if you are going to trade out of one, no mention about wind noise or diesel engine noise is a MUST for a down the road trade even if planning to trade it on another Lexus, any other car, unless one wants these currently claimed normal items later held against them as a defect devaluing the car.

I think what you responded makes sense up to a point, just view it as though the car works just great and approach this as though it is otherwise already time (usually much further down the road with a defect free vehicle) to be looking to trade the car.

P.S. There is also the male ego involved here not wanting to feel I was stupid I assumed this second one would not have the trans issue show up and also relying on a TSIB actually meaning something viable is being done in a timely fashion.

osokuko

Well the time has come to be proactive about this. Were going car shopping today to see what kind of a deal we can get on a ES350 UL with 400 miles on it. Already been to a dealership yesterday and have a preliminary deal working. If it works out could be in a GS350 in a few weeks, if it cost to much, well I’m stuck.

PS Were not stupid just hopeful but sooner or later reality settles in.

ES350Bob

The adding ATF convinced me to get proactive, that and the newer ones same trans issue.

I now view the release of some TSIB as pure PR, to give people the impression something is being done about an issue so they will feel less concern in getting it and go ahead and buy. I fell for the valve body one implying a real solution would be in the immediate offing which lessened my concern..

I too have a deal working, not unreasonable currently under these odd circumstances, but can be better, time will tell, but trying to identify all options.

garsarno

I ran into an old friend the other day and he asked how we liked the Lexus ES350 as his wife was looking to trade in their BMW 330. I informed him to review the postings here and advised him of my still unresolved cold engine knock (which seems to be getting a little louder and longer after the 5,000 miles free oil change) and replacement transmission (still no flare as yet). I told him to look at the Lincoln MKZ AWD as an alternative. Anything I can do to help the public......

ESsearch

Guys, I too have come to about the same conclusion. It is partly they (Lexus) has just wore me down dealing with this. I have better things to do. It is also partly osokuko's reminding me that I should just accept the car for what it is and move on.
Lexus has refused my request for a buyback. I think this is is the new corporate position they will be taking. They told me the car has been fixed. In reality the shuddering issue was fixed, the flare was not. I could continue down the path of proving it to them, making more phone calls, leaving my car at the dealership, etc. but, as I previously stated I am worn out dealing with it. At this point I wouldn't be suprised that the flare that remains would be considered normal or within their tolerances. So their resolution has been to offer the Platinum Warranty to me. That should cover any catastrophe should a keep the car and it will add some value if I sell it. The other option as I see it is to move to a different vehicle via a trade and take my lumps for having put my faith in a Lexus vehicle and their supoosed "Pursuit of Perfection".
History shows that this WILL catch up with them at some point. They will lose the reputation for quality and customers will go elsewhere. Unfortunately, we are all in this process too early in its cycle and forced to pay or compromise in one fashion or another. This was my first Lexus vehicle and probably my last.

Pete

ES350Bob

Pete,

I'm sorry to know of but I'm glad you posted your more recent experiences, because I'm not going to have regrets about a what if situation if and when I choose not to even attempt documenting defects, if they will leave you in the car, me in prior one, other members too, they could easily do it again with this one I'm in.

I stopped short of making a final deal yesterday on another car partly because I kept thinking this is so wrong, go to dealer and ultimately make Lexus take it's responsibility here, thought this last night and again this am hence the advice post. When the numbers improve slightly as I think they will enough for to go ahead and trade, even though a signifcant loss, I'll make a deal and not look back with regret at not even wasting my time trying.

wanderer99

I'm with many of you - I will be saying goodbye very soon to our ES350. I could go another 10 rounds with Lexus but as Bob and Alan mention above, there is really no point. There are no fixes and I've been an owner for over 10 mths now. In the case of Lexus in Canada there is not even any buybacks or extended warranties offered.

Best of luck to those who do buy an ES350 and do have problems - you'll need it.

Our next vehicle won't be a Lexus. We could buy an LS but that car has unresolved wind noise issues. The RX is just not really 'us' and I've driven that car quite a lot as a loaner many, many times. But what really seals it is that if I do have a problem that can't be resolved, I know exactly what I'm in for. That is an experience I never, ever, ever want to have again. And for me, that will probably be what I remember as The Lexus Experience.

Oh well, live and learn. I'm in the Banking industry and we have many people that own older Lexus products. Many people - many - have come to see me in the last 10 months asking about the new ES and how great it looks on the TV commercials, auto shows, etc. I've simply relayed my stories and pointed them here to CL to make up their own minds. Many new vehicles have been purchased as a result - FX35, G35 and a TL amongst others.

LexBob2

I've been reading a lot of positive press on the MKZ. The various car magazines as well as Consumer Reports say good things about it. The MKZ as well as the Cadillac CTS (a revised model is coming out) might be good alternatives to the ES. You might even be able to get a better deal on one of them as the domestic dealers typically discount their cars more than some of the imports.

dunnojack

the G35 is about the same price as a stripped ES. But if you go with that car, you MAY get a rattle box. there's no telling how much they improved the interior of that car.

people with 3-4 year old g35's have rattles. But other than that complaint, they don't have mechanical problems. Very good transmission, powerful engine, and plenty of interior space for tall people.

ES350Bob

I drove the new 07 G35, a VERY nice car, unfortunately

that was the dealer whose sales manager was schooled on defects my car had when he called with my VIN tried to get me more money for my trade, all of those "normal charcateristics" were listed to him as defects under the common phrase "the car has issues" the trade got worse, not better. That is why it is not wise to bring up wind noise or engine noise or anything members report they are turned away on to have them show on service record, because they are defects later held against you.

ESsearch

Bob - Again I feel the same. When they told me they would not offer a buyback, I was pissed and my first reaction was, I'll show those bastards what an injustice this is! You are right, this is so wrong and they should take responsibility. But after cooling off, I decided to keep my emotions out of the decision and evaluate where I stood:

1) I probably could force a buyback but to what end? Another ES almost certainly would have the transaxle slip and might have other issues I currently do not have.
2) Even with the cash back I have not found any other vehicle in the ES price range with the same features I wanted. I personally do not want to invest $50k or more in a car.
3) Lexus will likely not offer any support (price reduction) for me to move to a GS and I will not reward Lexus by paying a great deal more money to get into a GS.
4) If I wanted a GS I would have bought one the first time.
5) My ES is everything I wanted and hoped for with the exception of the slip. The slip is minor and only when cold. I can live with it. It is not right, not fair, nor what I would expect in a $40k plus vehicle, but I can live with it.
6) This whole experience has diminished the new car excitement and my pride of ownership. It has totally changed my opinion of what Lexus is as a corporation and how they value their customers.

This will catch up with Lexus at some point. Loss of reputation, class action suit, and diminished sales. It just won't happen in any timely manner for me. However when asked, I will share my experience with others and over time Lexus will suffer for it's arrogance.

Pete