e-man

Hey guys. My GS has been in the shop for a few days, and I've been driving around an ES350 (white on beige, September 2006 build). The car has around 4,000 miles. I believe it's the premium plus package (it has the adaptive headlights).

Anyway, I now understand why there is so much controversy on the ES350forum. First, let me say to all of you out there who are having problems with your ES350, that's a shame, a real shame. No one should have to experience those problems on any car, much less on one that you paid $40k for. That being said, my loaner does not have the problems that some have reported (and I've put it through all the tests). On the highway, there's no wind noise to speak of (unless, of course, it's windy). Until this morning, I had not experienced any transmission flare. I think I had a "baby" flare from 3rd to 4th where it spiked up 200 rpm, but I can't be completely sure. I think it may have just been holding 3rd gear because it was cold. I've hit my fist on the rear glass, no noise at all. I guess it has a slight diesel engine noise when it's cold, but it quickly goes away once it warms up. About the only problem I noticed (and that's because I was really looking for it) is that the rear carpet squeaks over the the center hump.

All in all, I am really, really impressed with this car. It's quiet, powerful, comfortable, gets great gas mileage and is fairly reasonably priced. I would trade my GS for this car in a heartbeat. However, I would be totally crushed if my new ES had transmission flaring problems or wind noise.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Mods, if you need to move this somewhere else, feel free.

e

wanderer99

e-man - thanks for the report. Try this tomorrow: let the car warm up for a minute or so, then drive it off and see if it flares on the 3-4 change. If its holding 3rd it means its not warm enough yet and sometimes this can mask the trans flare. Give us another report before you give the car back!!

ES350Bob

Yes you would and what would worsen it is 4 or more trips to dealer on a brand new car being told cannot duplicate, it's learning or being forced to go through 2 additional transmissions on a brand new car or the all time worse being left stuck in it if had just the transmission issue alone never mind the other issues possible.

If it flared/slipped like that as you reported, it has a transmission issue that will continue to reveal itself. I hope for the rest of the time you have it that it does not do it to you when pulling out in traffic.

cip

I just got my ES350 loaner and noticed 3 of the items reported here:

• engine tapping when cold oh my goodness... I cannot imagine this is OK for the car to do each time it's cold... this one alone is unacceptable
• noise in headliner.
• wind noise above 60 mph

But on the plus side:

• man that drives nice
• has some giddie-up on the hwy, I got over 100 passing a truck and was like....ooopsie!
• no trans issue
• very comfy inside

I do feel your pain though guys.

I'll check vin & build on this car today & report back. I really hope all this stuff gets resolved. I think the car is enjoyable to drive & my wife likes how it looks... but I think I'll wait 'till 2010... stuff should be worked out by then

twister

Ouch! Why not trade up to GS350? Unless you are getting tired of performance driving and want a softer and a roomier ride?

All your points about being impressed with ES are correct. I just wish they would manufacture all these ES350 consistently without tranny problems and better quality (wind noise, door alignment, engine tapping)

ES350Bob

cip,

Those 2 are representative of completely normal operating characteristics of the ES350 per Lexus corporate and dealers as well with only RARE exception by dealer regarding attempt at resolving a wind noise complaint but to Lexus corporate it's all normal for the ES350.

cip

that is weak!! It really is a shame this is how things are being handled.

Here's some info on my loaner:

• build date: 04/06
• vin: JTHBJ46G272xxxxxx
• 7300 miles

ES350Bob

cip,

I just noticed you are from the Chicago area, colder weather lessens the intensity of the wind noise, at least in my experiences it does by roughly half, and cold here is 51 degrees

MD350

This is an interesting perspective. Other Lexus model owners driving the ES350 and noticing the issues. This ES is my first Lexus, I have nothing to compare it to.

e-man

Here's a quick update. The car definitely has the flare issue, but it does not seem as severe as some have reported. It happened again this morning after a cold start. After pulling out of my development, while going from 3rd to 4th, it spiked about 200 rpm. It happened again on the way to lunch, just once right after I started it. Here's the strange thing. The flare (at least in this car) seems to be tied to how quickly you accelerate. Under hard acceleration, there's no flare, even after a cold start. If you accelerate gingerly, again, no flare. Both times it happened today, it was under what I would call "moderate" acceleration. I'll check again tomorrow morning, but I expect the result will be the same -- cold start, one flare from 3rd to 4th, and then not again until the next cold start. It's definitely not normal, but like I said earlier, it's almost as if the computer is confused -- because the car is cold, it's trying to hold the gear (as my GS does) to allow the car to warm up more quickly, but it gets confused and then can't make a decision. Should I hold the gear? SHould I change the gear? I think I'll hold it. No, wait a minute I think I'll shift. No, changed my mind again, I'll hold it, and that's when the flare comes. Under hard acceleration, it knows to shift. The decision is crystal clear. The result -- no flare. Under soft acceleration, it just holds the gear for a little longer, and the result is no flare. It's only when accelerating in that moderate range that the tranny gets confused and can't make up it's mind as to what it wants to do.

Okay, enough of that for now. Each day I drive this car, I continue to be more and more impressed with its comfort, ride quality, performance, luxury, etc. The reason it's a shame that some of you are experiencing such problems is because it's preventing you from enjoying what truly is a wonderful car.

Twister, you never had a 2GS (98-05), right? I've driven an 06 GS300, and there's no comparison in the ride quality. Perhaps it's just the symptoms of an 8 year old car, but my 99 does not feel nearly as solid as the 06 GS300 I drove. The 06 was sure-footed. Sometimes my 99 is not. The ES is a nice break from it all. Performance and handling are great, but comfort and quiet is really, really refreshing for a change.

e

cip

Bob- actually yesterday morning was pretty mild for Chicago (41) Also I'm comparing the wind noise to my SC. Admittedly my car is 10 years older, has 105K miles, but the door seals are perfect, it was a dealer maintained car & on the hwy if I have the music & fan off, the only thing I hear is tire nose & a little wind noise from the sunroof area. I remember my '96 ES had the wind noise around the mirrors that got annoying after a while.

Having said that, I agree w/ e-man: when I get in the ES it is really an excellent chassis. It's quiet, smooth, sure-footed. I would definitely consider one for my wife (when we're done with the mini-van ) but as I said earlier I'll wait 'till the issues are addressed. If they're not, then I'm all for a certified '04 LS for about $35k

e-man, which dealer are you working with? I see you're in IL, are you Chicago-area?

ES350Bob

cip,

I think since the new LS460 has a wind noise issue the LS folks are complaining about on LS forum it will get addressed at some point and then whatever the remedy is for them will likely work for ES350 too, but might just miss the 08 release. Though I have read some very familiar sounding excuse like comments shared by LS owners given them by dealer we initially heard on the ES350.

The engine noise, I doubt that will be adressed any time soon as absurd as that would be not to address, not for 08 anyway, as they dismiss it as normal as mentioned, and it is looking like the transmission will not be either for the 08.

One aspect to it's otherwise positive attributes you and e-man mention is that/they fuel(s) the frustration on the un-resolved because ride and things like power steering, heating and AC are otherwise awesome so one gets livid at the excuses for the problem issues present dampening the ownership experience.

LexBob2

cip, I've had the same quiet experience with my car that you've had with your loaner. I don't have any excessive wind noise under any conditions (either speed or temperatures) and that includes a lot of highway and expressway driving. I haven't had any of the other issues discussed here. I got it in mid-May '06 and it's a great car. Not a bad value for the price paid either.

ES350Bob

Lex,

He was talking about his SC , not the ES350 loaner, which he reported has the engine knocking tapping, wind noise and a headliner rattle.

cip

First for LexBob2- your experience is still along the lines of the majority, wouldn't you agree ES350Bob?

I just have a hard time with any manufacturer that attempts to fix / diagnose problems then when they can't fix them just calls it 'normal characteristic'.
One thing I wonder about re: the engine noise when it's cold.... the compression ratio of that engine is 10.8:1 and is only requiring regular (87 octane) gas. Isn't that kind of low? I mean I know electronics have come far these days (heck the IS350 has 11.8:1 CR !!), but my car is 10.4:1 & reuires premium. Can I put in mid-grade? yes, but when I have I can occasionally hear pinging.
Has anyone put in higher octane & have the noise go away?
That's one of the problems working with these complex ECM's; when a hardware component is not functioning correctly, the software can come in & compensate effectively masking the problem.
I think Toyota would be better off acknowledging the issues & say they are working on it. Treat the customers right & you keep the customers!!