MD350

Not sure how scientific it is, but I can confirm that ALL ES 350's do not flare. My car has 10K miles on it and not a single flare to date.

My 5/06 build loaner car at my 5K service flared several times back in November.
My 4/06 build loaner car at my 10K service flared twice this morning.

It is not driving habits, it is case by case on the car.

The flare is not a normal characteristic, I can see and feel the difference. This is an issue that Lexus needs to address!!

It has nothing to do with driving habits.

Lastly, I did not try to do anything different to get it to flare. It just did it and I was watching for it.

ES350Bob

MD,

I agree, only would say something has needed to have been done.

The observation you offered of able to ...."feel the difference" is the number one reason. The experience as a passenger for the elderly and the very young is unpleasant compared to the driver having some means of support by handling steering wheel. I saw this firsthand with my elderly mother as passenger during a slip and allowed similar for very young children.

This is above and beyond any concern for needless wear stress to both engine and transmission when these slips happen and above and beyond anyone's concern if the word gets out on these having problematic transmissions and lowering trade or resale value.

wanderer99

MD350 - thanks for that information. It must be a little shocking to have the loaner cars do that, yet your car behaves perfectly. You can probably see why some of us get frustrated when our cars do slip and Lexus can't do anything to fix it.

I've been thinking about trans issues in ES vehicles and come up with the following:
- 2002-2006 builds = trans hesitation. Affected owners never got any real fix to this over the years despite various re-flashes of the ECU in the car to 'fix' this. I'd rate this as never fixed. I'm sure others here would agree.
- 2007 = first car builds had trans detonation. Replacement trans installed. Fixed? Who knows.
- 2007 = TSIB for valve body replacement. This was a failure - didn't fix the problem in most cases.
- 2007 = TSIB for trans replacement. Again a failure, doesn't really fix the problem in most cases.

Given Lexus\Toyota engineering history here with their transmissions I'm wondering why we think this will be fixed - for those who are affected. Sure it sucks, but to the previous gen of owners their trans did as well. The fact that there is no mechanical breakdown of the trans right now (same as previous gen) adds to the 'reliability' of the car... even if its not working correctly!

So if history repeats here... this is probably as good as it will get for us.

MD350

I feel your pain, because my wife's previous 2004 Sienna had the 3.3L in it and had the same issues as the ES330. I also see why so many members are so upset with the ES350. My wife is now back in a Honda product and happy. Might be the same for me once my ES hits 50K miles.

NGG

What does this say about Toyota/Lexus engineering, customer support and ethics in continuing to promote and sell a product that is clearly defective?

I guess when you are big enough you can treat these issues at the nuisance level and not consider them fatal flaws. However as a long-time customer I have news for them as it is the start of a very slippery slope. My wife's 4Runner is due for replacement soon and for the first time in 30 years we will be visiting non-Toyota showrooms....all because of the ES350/V6 Camry debacle!

RXSF

one question. forgive me for not wanting to search about it.

but what is this transmission flare your experiencing?

dunnojack

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=248242

grab some popcorn and enjoy

static

Where do the loaner pool cars come from? Is it possible that a higher percentage of cars with the flare end up there, some form of "natural selection"?

garsarno

That loaner ES350s are previous flare cars is an excellent point! Corporate and dealers probably figure let's use them and then they can hold the used car market up when they resell on their lot or ship them off to the auction.

ES350Bob

That is possible static and in line with garsarno's comments.

I'll say this, allow the dealer is a large volume dealer, but still what I saw early October last year would rival the numbers in a wildebeest mass migration at river's edge; one ES350 loaner lined up after another in the loaner car return lane of dealership. Every ES350 loaner I drove was different than the prior and to my car, not unlike MD's observations. I believe him when he says a loaner may have flared but ran quieter otherwise than his personal car. Noisier by far too is possible.

dunnojack

my local dealership purchases new 350's to use as loaner cars.

2 out of 3 have flared. they were earlier builds- august or earlier.

the flare has to be due to bad design. just as oil sludge buildup in the last gen 3.0 v6 engine.

RXSF

ive had the ES350 for a loaner for a few days one time. never got that transmission flare...

MD350

Exactly, as I said not all ES350's will flare...including my own.

As to loaners being pooled with flares, that may be at some dealers. But, my dealer's fleet is new. In fact, I saw a bunch lined up ready to be put in the fleet. Also, the car had a May 2006 inspection sticker, which tells me it was put into service as soon as it hit the ground.

I can say I am happy to be back in my car. I picked it up tonight.

ES350Bob

Having a loaner for a day or two would not totally allow you to rule out it having the slipping, it can be random, take a day or two holiday or whatever it is doing, and then return sequentially for several days and holiday again.

My current is far more consistent in flaring than former, where former was best described as frequent yet very random, yet even current can take a holiday for a day or two in a row and then return with a vengeance.