Questions For those with working transmissions.....
03-06-07, 06:36 PM
#16
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks to everyone who has commented to date. For those with working transmissions the last few months must have been very annoying to you having to read constantly how things are malfunctioning (for some) and how the fixes have failed. Thanks for bearing with those of us who do have problems as we've vented on this issue. 
From the comments above it looks to me like:
- your working transmissions are very smooth in operation.
- You don't have harsh shifts at all. Ever!
- The trans logic seems OK and doesn't get caught out much (if at all).
- There is sometimes a slight hesitation upon hard acceleration, but you're all OK with that.
The above comments actually matched my recollections of my original transmission for the first 2000 kms. As I said in my first post, I couldn't even really tell my trans was shifting. It was really nice and I had no complaints at all about the trans. Wind Noise and engine noise = yes. Trans = absolutely not.
So, if you have a working transmission It seems that you have basically none of the often posted issues. That is good as it means that the trans can operate perfectly as you are demonstrating to me in this thread.
I believe you guys when you say you have no problems. I'm sure you'd post here if you did have problems!
From the comments above it looks to me like:
- your working transmissions are very smooth in operation.
- You don't have harsh shifts at all. Ever!
- The trans logic seems OK and doesn't get caught out much (if at all).
- There is sometimes a slight hesitation upon hard acceleration, but you're all OK with that.
The above comments actually matched my recollections of my original transmission for the first 2000 kms. As I said in my first post, I couldn't even really tell my trans was shifting. It was really nice and I had no complaints at all about the trans. Wind Noise and engine noise = yes. Trans = absolutely not.
So, if you have a working transmission It seems that you have basically none of the often posted issues. That is good as it means that the trans can operate perfectly as you are demonstrating to me in this thread.
I believe you guys when you say you have no problems. I'm sure you'd post here if you did have problems!
03-06-07, 06:42 PM
#17
After reading this thread at work today, I paid extra attention to cold shifts on my car on my commute home. The shifts were crisp and could be felt slightly. No doubt, much smoother when warm. Outside temp was about 35 degrees and engine was cold. No flares.
I also agree that when starting slowly from a stop, the car does not like to stay in 1st gear and switches to 2nd very quickly.
I also agree that when starting slowly from a stop, the car does not like to stay in 1st gear and switches to 2nd very quickly.
03-06-07, 06:50 PM
#18
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
New theory!
I've now got a new theory about what might be happening with my trans issues. You've proved to me in this thread that a perfectly working trans is still possible.
My current trans behaviour:
- our heads bob around when we get the 1-2 change. It's that harsh.
- shift logic is screwed up. Won't change gears when you expect it to. Then changes at other times when you don't expect it!
- always aware of the shifts.
- 90% of shifts are not smooth and are easily detectable.
- It flares. Enough said.
- 3-4 and 4-5 gear change goes down 400rpm on the change... then up 200rpm... then down another 300rpm. Doesn't do this on 1-2 or 2-3.
- Downhill with cruise on at 100km\h the RPM will bounce up 200 rpm, down 1000rpm then up 500rpm, then up some more, then repeat over and over again. Kind of fun to watch. Must be stuck going from 5-6 change but this is never detectable.
Battery disconnection does cure the harsh shifts... for a very short period of time. I've had the disconnection done many times as my car has been at the dealer quite alot. The fact that the disconnection does seem to fix the weird or harsh shift issues suggests it is a software problem that over time revert back to its 'learned' bad behaviour. My car still flares regardless of the battery disconnection and that might be the root cause. I've got 21,000kms of problematic travel time on my car now.
My Theory: Malfunctioning transmission can cause software 'learning' to get all screwed up and manifest harsh shifting and weird trans behaviour. It probably tries to compensate for the physically bad trans, and the end result is what I see above.
My current trans behaviour:
- our heads bob around when we get the 1-2 change. It's that harsh.
- shift logic is screwed up. Won't change gears when you expect it to. Then changes at other times when you don't expect it!
- always aware of the shifts.
- 90% of shifts are not smooth and are easily detectable.
- It flares. Enough said.
- 3-4 and 4-5 gear change goes down 400rpm on the change... then up 200rpm... then down another 300rpm. Doesn't do this on 1-2 or 2-3.
- Downhill with cruise on at 100km\h the RPM will bounce up 200 rpm, down 1000rpm then up 500rpm, then up some more, then repeat over and over again. Kind of fun to watch. Must be stuck going from 5-6 change but this is never detectable.
Battery disconnection does cure the harsh shifts... for a very short period of time. I've had the disconnection done many times as my car has been at the dealer quite alot. The fact that the disconnection does seem to fix the weird or harsh shift issues suggests it is a software problem that over time revert back to its 'learned' bad behaviour. My car still flares regardless of the battery disconnection and that might be the root cause. I've got 21,000kms of problematic travel time on my car now.
My Theory: Malfunctioning transmission can cause software 'learning' to get all screwed up and manifest harsh shifting and weird trans behaviour. It probably tries to compensate for the physically bad trans, and the end result is what I see above.
03-06-07, 07:17 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
Wanderer, seems it could be worse, you or I for that matter could also have the dreaded<---see below: i was researching transmission issues Toyota/Lexus and came across this and thought WTF is this Whistle Hoot thing
TC012-05 WHISTLE/HOOT NOISE FROM AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE
9/1/2005 - 2003,2004, 2005, 2006 model year Toyota Corolla vehicles equipped with the 1ZZ–FE engine and an automatic transaxle (ATM). Some 2003 – 2006 model year Corolla vehicles equipped with the 1ZZ–FE engine and an automatic transaxle (ATM) may exhibit a “whistle” or “hoot” noise under light acceleration at 35 – 40 mph (56 – 64 km/h) with the ATM at normal operating temperature. ATM cooler lines have been modified to reduce this condition on customer complaint vehicles.
File is associated with other vehicles
TC012-05 WHISTLE/HOOT NOISE FROM AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE
9/1/2005 - 2003,2004, 2005, 2006 model year Toyota Corolla vehicles equipped with the 1ZZ–FE engine and an automatic transaxle (ATM). Some 2003 – 2006 model year Corolla vehicles equipped with the 1ZZ–FE engine and an automatic transaxle (ATM) may exhibit a “whistle” or “hoot” noise under light acceleration at 35 – 40 mph (56 – 64 km/h) with the ATM at normal operating temperature. ATM cooler lines have been modified to reduce this condition on customer complaint vehicles.
File is associated with other vehicles
03-06-07, 07:20 PM
#20
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Frozen
Interesting so far, no one has a comment about the 37-38 mph bucking feeling like it’s trying to learn. I’m curious to know if when approaching a red light, starting to slow down for the stop at say from 40 mph do you (1) slightly left your foot on the gas pedal to start to decelerate in speed or do you (2) take your foot off the gas pedal and coast down in speed to about 36-37 mph before starting to brake? The reason I ask this is I have found I can stop the bucking if I do number 2 (no more bucking) wondering if you guys are doing the same with your cars.
FWIW, I have not experienced any troubles with the tranny. I am too far from a highway to get a cold tranny to speed. Rats, seems like I'll never get to experience the dreaded surge.
03-06-07, 09:29 PM
#21
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Are you kidding? To slow down, I brake when needed and coast to a stop when its not. Who doesn't? Why would you watch your spedometer until you go from 40 to 37MPH and then apply the brakes?
FWIW, I have not experienced any troubles with the tranny. I am too far from a highway to get a cold tranny to speed. Rats, seems like I'll never get to experience the dreaded surge.
FWIW, I have not experienced any troubles with the tranny. I am too far from a highway to get a cold tranny to speed. Rats, seems like I'll never get to experience the dreaded surge.
03-07-07, 05:17 AM
#22
Lexus Champion
Glad to hear you don’t understand what I’m talking about. That mean you have never experienced any kind of “bucking” while coasting down from 38 mph. Where I live people here drive on the 2 lane roads at 40 maybe 41 mph. Lol. They start to slow down for the intersection with a red light about 200 feet out. Which means you can’t brake you have to coast to the intersection with them. People here drive either slow or fast. So if you reduce your foot pressure on the gas pedal to reduce speed slowly as your speed drops around 37 mph that’s the torque converter lockup – unlock speed and some car get confused what to do. Lock or unlock back and fourth it goes “Bucking” until you get blow 36-37 then it goes away. Or you can take your foot off the gas pedal and allow the torque converter in lockup mode to carry you at 40mph for 5 or so seconds then it will unlock and slow the car down with “no bucking”. In other words the computer is teaching the human to give clear signal – what are you doing, oh your slowing down - unlock! But I think from reading your post your not going to have to put up with a bunch of slow drives coasting forever before you brake.
I came across the whistle hoot TSIB above when trying to look for a TSIB that applies to your car and looking at trans in general. I am pretty certain there is a harsh downshift, upshift TSIB on ES350, but stopped thumbing through them after seeing the above mentioned and thinking the description was hilarious considering we struggle at times for words/adjectives to describe our cars...LOL.. Go to Tundra solutions web site, I am pretty sure a TSIB is out there on what you experience.
03-07-07, 05:58 AM
#23
I've now got a new theory about what might be happening with my trans issues. You've proved to me in this thread that a perfectly working trans is still possible.
My current trans behaviour:
- our heads bob around when we get the 1-2 change. It's that harsh.
- shift logic is screwed up. Won't change gears when you expect it to. Then changes at other times when you don't expect it!
- always aware of the shifts.
- 90% of shifts are not smooth and are easily detectable.
- It flares. Enough said.
- 3-4 and 4-5 gear change goes down 400rpm on the change... then up 200rpm... then down another 300rpm. Doesn't do this on 1-2 or 2-3.
- Downhill with cruise on at 100km\h the RPM will bounce up 200 rpm, down 1000rpm then up 500rpm, then up some more, then repeat over and over again. Kind of fun to watch. Must be stuck going from 5-6 change but this is never detectable.
Battery disconnection does cure the harsh shifts... for a very short period of time. I've had the disconnection done many times as my car has been at the dealer quite alot. The fact that the disconnection does seem to fix the weird or harsh shift issues suggests it is a software problem that over time revert back to its 'learned' bad behaviour. My car still flares regardless of the battery disconnection and that might be the root cause. I've got 21,000kms of problematic travel time on my car now.
My Theory: Malfunctioning transmission can cause software 'learning' to get all screwed up and manifest harsh shifting and weird trans behaviour. It probably tries to compensate for the physically bad trans, and the end result is what I see above.
My current trans behaviour:
- our heads bob around when we get the 1-2 change. It's that harsh.
- shift logic is screwed up. Won't change gears when you expect it to. Then changes at other times when you don't expect it!
- always aware of the shifts.
- 90% of shifts are not smooth and are easily detectable.
- It flares. Enough said.
- 3-4 and 4-5 gear change goes down 400rpm on the change... then up 200rpm... then down another 300rpm. Doesn't do this on 1-2 or 2-3.
- Downhill with cruise on at 100km\h the RPM will bounce up 200 rpm, down 1000rpm then up 500rpm, then up some more, then repeat over and over again. Kind of fun to watch. Must be stuck going from 5-6 change but this is never detectable.
Battery disconnection does cure the harsh shifts... for a very short period of time. I've had the disconnection done many times as my car has been at the dealer quite alot. The fact that the disconnection does seem to fix the weird or harsh shift issues suggests it is a software problem that over time revert back to its 'learned' bad behaviour. My car still flares regardless of the battery disconnection and that might be the root cause. I've got 21,000kms of problematic travel time on my car now.
My Theory: Malfunctioning transmission can cause software 'learning' to get all screwed up and manifest harsh shifting and weird trans behaviour. It probably tries to compensate for the physically bad trans, and the end result is what I see above.
Just my two cents.
03-07-07, 06:05 AM
#24
Glad to hear you don’t understand what I’m talking about. That mean you have never experienced any kind of “bucking” while coasting down from 38 mph. Where I live people here drive on the 2 lane roads at 40 maybe 41 mph. Lol. They start to slow down for the intersection with a red light about 200 feet out. Which means you can’t brake you have to coast to the intersection with them. People here drive either slow or fast. So if you reduce your foot pressure on the gas pedal to reduce speed slowly as your speed drops around 37 mph that’s the torque converter lockup – unlock speed and some car get confused what to do. Lock or unlock back and fourth it goes “Bucking” until you get blow 36-37 then it goes away. Or you can take your foot off the gas pedal and allow the torque converter in lockup mode to carry you at 40mph for 5 or so seconds then it will unlock and slow the car down with “no bucking”. In other words the computer is teaching the human to give clear signal – what are you doing, oh your slowing down - unlock! But I think from reading your post your not going to have to put up with a bunch of slow drives coasting forever before you brake.
Pete
03-07-07, 06:14 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
Bob is right; we are in need of a Lexus dictionary to be consistent in our descriptions! I believe the "bucking" you refer to is what I have been calling shuddering. In my case it was mostly evident and annoying while accelerating slowly at low rpms from about 37 mph. I would also notice on decelaration as well, but less so. I believe this issue has been fixed on my car with the latest fluid fill procedure.
Pete
Pete
That reminds me of a Honda service manager who said to me, "Bob if you called in here and told us your engine was as though playing the Star Spangled Banner, we'd believe you and would listen for something that sounds exactly as you describe"...LOL...he loved my descriptions but even I might not ever come up with that whistle hoot TSIB title...that is a classic
03-07-07, 01:33 PM
#26
Time to weigh in here. Probably a bit early, but you asked for it!
As you will see I'm a light driver in all aspects.
My car is build 12/06, picked it up about 2.5 weeks ago.
So far I have less than 150 miles!
Yeah you're asking yourself, what do I need a car for right?
- the smoothness when shifting (smooth in shifting all gears?)
I don't do any manual shifting (probably never will). The automatic shifting is very smooth.
- any harshness in changing gears?
None so far.
- any noticeable change in logic as it "learnt" your driving behaviour?
No. Is it really learning my driving behaviour? Where can I read about this in the manual?
- any erratic shift patterns?
No.
- any change or weirdness when going up\down hilly areas?
The town I live in is very flat overall, so I won't be of much help here.
- how many miles you've accumulated.
Less than 150.
- are you aware of what the trans is doing?
Most of the time no. That's because everything is so smooth,
I did start to notice something interesting a week or so ago. When I release the gas pedal the car will start to downshift. I never had this 'feature' in any of my previous vehicles. I think it's kind of neat. It saves my using the brakes quite a bit. It's not a fast downshift, very gradual. About the same deceleration I'd be making if I used the brakes instead.
Is this part of the design of the car?
For me, so far, this is the only thing that stands out with my transmission.
One thing I must add. I live in the Cold White North (Canada) and although we are having an unusually warm winter, the temps the past couple of weeks have been quite a bit below freezing.
Oh I got a question for some of you other guys.
Why would you ever floor the gas pedal?
I mean, if you were using the car to race or if you were in an emergency and needed to make an ultra fast escape I might understand it. But otherwise, what's the reason? If I want to accelerate quickly I press down quicker than I normally do on the gas pedal that's all. But it never goes down to the floor.
Probably a bit early, but you asked for it!As you will see I'm a light driver in all aspects.
My car is build 12/06, picked it up about 2.5 weeks ago.
So far I have less than 150 miles!
Yeah you're asking yourself, what do I need a car for right?
- the smoothness when shifting (smooth in shifting all gears?)
I don't do any manual shifting (probably never will). The automatic shifting is very smooth.
- any harshness in changing gears?
None so far.
- any noticeable change in logic as it "learnt" your driving behaviour?
No. Is it really learning my driving behaviour? Where can I read about this in the manual?
- any erratic shift patterns?
No.
- any change or weirdness when going up\down hilly areas?
The town I live in is very flat overall, so I won't be of much help here.
- how many miles you've accumulated.
Less than 150.
- are you aware of what the trans is doing?
Most of the time no. That's because everything is so smooth,
I did start to notice something interesting a week or so ago. When I release the gas pedal the car will start to downshift. I never had this 'feature' in any of my previous vehicles. I think it's kind of neat. It saves my using the brakes quite a bit. It's not a fast downshift, very gradual. About the same deceleration I'd be making if I used the brakes instead.
Is this part of the design of the car?
For me, so far, this is the only thing that stands out with my transmission.
One thing I must add. I live in the Cold White North (Canada) and although we are having an unusually warm winter, the temps the past couple of weeks have been quite a bit below freezing.
Oh I got a question for some of you other guys.
Why would you ever floor the gas pedal?
I mean, if you were using the car to race or if you were in an emergency and needed to make an ultra fast escape I might understand it. But otherwise, what's the reason? If I want to accelerate quickly I press down quicker than I normally do on the gas pedal that's all. But it never goes down to the floor.
Last edited by NoiseFree; 03-07-07 at 01:39 PM.
03-07-07, 01:40 PM
#27
I noticed that it does downshift when the accelerator pedal is released. I thought it was not supposed to do that but it does not affect the gas mileage or rpms. Living with it.
03-07-07, 02:55 PM
#28
Lexus Champion
Noise, in my case, when I mentioned flooring the gas pedal I was referring to situations where it's needed. Like merging on to a busy expressway, having to shoot across lanes in a strange city to get to an exit (Atlanta and Tampa come to mind). Those are about the only times I'll do it. I guess once in a while I'll do it just for the heck of it, but not often.
03-07-07, 03:32 PM
#29
Pole Position
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oso,
I came across the whistle hoot TSIB above when trying to look for a TSIB that applies to your car and looking at trans in general. I am pretty certain there is a harsh downshift, upshift TSIB on ES350, but stopped thumbing through them after seeing the above mentioned and thinking the description was hilarious considering we struggle at times for words/adjectives to describe our cars...LOL.. Go to Tundra solutions web site, I am pretty sure a TSIB is out there on what you experience.
I came across the whistle hoot TSIB above when trying to look for a TSIB that applies to your car and looking at trans in general. I am pretty certain there is a harsh downshift, upshift TSIB on ES350, but stopped thumbing through them after seeing the above mentioned and thinking the description was hilarious considering we struggle at times for words/adjectives to describe our cars...LOL.. Go to Tundra solutions web site, I am pretty sure a TSIB is out there on what you experience.
Last edited by osokuko; 03-07-07 at 03:43 PM.
03-07-07, 04:08 PM
#30
Pole Position
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NoiseFree
I did start to notice something interesting a week or so ago. When I release the gas pedal the car will start to downshift. I never had this 'feature' in any of my previous vehicles. I think it's kind of neat. It saves my using the brakes quite a bit. It's not a fast downshift, very gradual. About the same deceleration I'd be making if I used the brakes instead.
Is this part of the design of the car?
Oh wow there bring that back again. It sounds like what your feeling when you take you foot off the gas is a feature used on the 06 Camry 5 speed AT. It’s used for going down hill, Just like you say if you slightly release the gas pedal the trans will give the car resistances so you don’t have to ride your brakes all the time. I’ll have to check it out next time I drive.
I did start to notice something interesting a week or so ago. When I release the gas pedal the car will start to downshift. I never had this 'feature' in any of my previous vehicles. I think it's kind of neat. It saves my using the brakes quite a bit. It's not a fast downshift, very gradual. About the same deceleration I'd be making if I used the brakes instead.
Is this part of the design of the car?
Oh wow there bring that back again. It sounds like what your feeling when you take you foot off the gas is a feature used on the 06 Camry 5 speed AT. It’s used for going down hill, Just like you say if you slightly release the gas pedal the trans will give the car resistances so you don’t have to ride your brakes all the time. I’ll have to check it out next time I drive.