jjbodean

bob, i respect your opinion, however my point regarding the yahoo poll was that 20% rate of trans issues is artificially high, and i doubt that real world examples are even close to that number. i never said that only CL members experienced this issue. my opinion is that the unhappy owners that experience a trans issue are more vocal and more likely to reply to such polls, etc, therefore leading to an inflated %.

ES350Bob

ok, but it seemed that way based on your CL comment earlier this thread.

If not for CL lots of folks would be lost when dealing with some issues, including your typical helpful input.

P.S. I still think you need to grill those lower echelon intake folks at your service department and report back.

jjbodean

my service dept consists of a svc manager, 2 svc writers, a diagnostic spec, and 4 techs. didnt take me long to ask all of them already

twister

Using "Lexus ES350..." brings up 300 links. While, using "Lexus ES 350..." brings up over 15,000 with lots of them being NOT from CL.

mjmg8rs

So a couple of thoughts -
I live in So Florida - there pretty much isnt a sedan I have seen that doesnt have alot of people that are older driving it - but it seems to be popular in the western neighborhoods that arent as old demographically..

A point of interest - my third transmission did not flare between 3/4 it flared between 2/3.. much smaller flare (500) but still flared.. it also felt "different" like it was jumpier - or running hotter - very scientific I know - but its hard to describe - like it was running at a higher RMP all the time.. not smooth at all

I really appreciate any information you guys might have on the value - if nothing else just to give me some perspective -

Thanks -

dunnojack

I know about the 2/3 flare you're talking about.

I just had one this morning on my loaner, while it was 75 degrees outside. I warmed up the car for 30 seconds, then slowly accelerated and cruised down the neighborhood at <20mph. I waited for it to happen, and I also expected it to happen. There was a 1000rpm spike and it sounded "sticky".
But honestly, it sounded harmless. I didn't feel a jolt or anything. And the more I think of it, the more I feel that most owners probably don't even notice this as unusual, and never send their car in to the shop.

Worst case scenario is that this will turn out like the 1Mz-FE engine sludge class action suit, and toyota pays for all the repairs and crap 8 years later.

ES350Bob

mjm,

MD said he would look into Manheim auction prices and let us know very recent values.

Late last month Blackbook was 28,800 and Manheim was 29,200 with lower options as in non-UL vehicles at 29,200 was the opinion.

So, whatever you get in trade value above 29,200 while also with a good price discount off MSRP is likely an ok deal under the circumstances, it's the under the circumstances part regarding trade value that is not pleasant about these. If you have UL maybe anything above 30,500 along with a discount off MSRP.

As for 2 to 3 slipping for you and dunnojack's loaner, others have expressed as well, I believe that is the reason these transmissins are still not fixed, there was NO interest in that happening when I repeatedly brought it up to corporate and you will see no corporate official mention of it anywhere nearly a year after these had been released. I posted that in my TSIB error? thread

MD350

Ok, here is the data

31 ES 350s sold in the last 30 days. System does not break down UL, PP, NAV, etc. There is one category for ES, that is it.

Above average condition $34,642
Average condition $31,518
Below average condition $28,394

The above are averages on the 31 sales. Some were higher, some were lower. Some very well could have had body damage.

Miles ranged from 1,100 to 18,000

ES350Bob

The lower has dropped in the last few weeks, it was 29,200 if you are taking it from Manheim

This is in line otherwise as opinion was the higher number was with more options and as you said it is not broken down, so all he could give was his opinion the higher figure was maxed out option-wise UL-ML/NAV and condition-wise, miles-wise. As explained to me and also from experience: Dealers will shoot for below those figures in a trade allowance if they can get away with it or they will stay tighter on their discount off MSRP.

MD350

Yes, they will shoot for a little less than average if the car is clean. Below average if the car is a mess. Then, there is room to work, because the dealer does not want you to walk over $500 or $1000. They want you to buy the new car. For example, I just bought my wife's Pilot. They came back at $1,000 under average MMR on the Sienna. I worked them for more money and ended up at about $650 higher than average MMR. The car was clean, no damage, and in good shape (tires, etc). If the customer knows what they are doing, you can do fine. And, you can always try to sell it yourself and make thousands more...if you want the hassle.

ES350Bob

Here's the kicker though.

The trade offer amount drops like a stone if they run your VIN and see a transmission issue

Seems they view that, rightfully so I guess, about as alarming as the car having had a minor fender bender, if not more alarming. Been in that position, done that even though I had asked my service records be changed to reflect what the Lexus corp tech had claimed, my car was operating with "normal characteristics." When they valued it, all of a sudden the "normal" was a negative.

MD350

I am not sure what gets reported to carfax and what does not. If Lexus does not report the tranny issues to carfax, the report will be clean.

At the auction, I believe that title issues, true miles unknown, and frame damage are the only three issues that need to be disclosed.

ES350Bob

I meant when a dealer takes your VIN # down and then calls Lexus dealer to see what they can get for your car providing them with VIN which they ask for.

Then you realize all these "normal characteristics" are costing you big $$$$ such as excessive wind noise showing up, diesel engine noise and certainly the transmission all showing up on it's service history by it's VIN.

If you have any of the above wait till there is an absolute fix for them before even mentioning it to dealer service otherwise they show up when dealer runs your VIN and if you end up losing patience for fixes and want to trade out of the car your trade allowance is very likely going to be less than the lowest figure from Manheim. That actually happened to me on former car, one price before VIN provided to Lexus dealer, 20 minutes later a different price after Lexus dealer called back with "offer" if you could even call it an offer.

MD350

Bob, what happened to you is not the norm. Dealers will usually not call and look up service records. And if you are afraid that they will, go buy on a Sunday when service is closed. Honestly, I have been in the business for over 10 years, trade my cars every two years, and it has never happened to me. I also look at deal structures all day long here at work, most customers are low balled on their trade due to condition (bald tires, body damage, dirty interior). Looking up service records is not a common practice. However, carfax is and carfax would not report a tranny flare.

Now, what would hurt values is that Consumer Reports puts the 07 ES 350 on their used car list to avoid. That would hurt!! So, we should all complain only so much or we are just killing our investment.

ES350Bob

It maybe different other areas but here in my general area dealers always ask for VIN if they are going to give a firm price to actually purchase the car from dealer trying to sell you a new car. They don't ask for VIN if it is a what if situation where they are not actually going to send over purchase confirmation numbers.

When I traded my MB C240 on first ES, they took VIN down and called MB dealer and gave VIN to MB dealer, in that case the VIN had nothing service wise it had zero problems when I owned it.

Seriously they really do ask for VIN around here, statewide it seems.

Best bet I think, similar to what you were saying above, is if people just understand the dealer is going to shoot for a low Manheim or Blackbook value, and buyer should work them on their discount off MSRP. If your car has service dept documented issues anything above the lower auction figure with a healthy MSRP discount should be tolerable if one must be in the position in the first place on an otherwise brand new car.

I think my experience was a result of sales manager at Infiniti dealer trying to maximize my trade allowance in order to make me happy about a deal, so he called Lexus dealer giving VIN to see how many hundreds or maybe a thousand more he could get direct to dealer above auction price???? Not sure, but after that VIN went over, shortly after, the trade value went through the floor.