Buyback recommendations??
03-04-07, 06:25 AM
#16
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I look at people sometimes when I drive... And in recent months, I've been very interested in who's driving the ES and the Camry. It's understood I can't always judge a book by its cover, but there's some real winners driving these cars around... Unfortunately, it's the majority and as such I think the reason why the defect rates aren't higher.
03-04-07, 06:54 AM
#17
While I mentioned this very point months ago, it will be some time before any real data is available to prove the hypothesis... The Acura dealer had to call a local Toyota dealer to give me a trade in value for my Clamry, so it's not in "the books" so to speak. A point of interest though... The wholesale buyer was there the day I traded and he offered up considerably less than what the Toyota dealer would pay. Since the dealer group I bought the Acura from also sells Toyota, the sales manager said they would trade on the Toyota value and would be transferring the car to them.
Another point I've tried to make in the past, but was taken as being offensixve to some of the member here... I think I called ES buyers mostly geriatrics. Whatever the case, I AM NOT BROADBRUSHING HERE, so if you do not fit the following, please take no offense!
I look at people sometimes when I drive... And in recent months, I've been very interested in who's driving the ES and the Camry. It's understood I can't always judge a book by its cover, but there's some real winners driving these cars around... Unfortunately, it's the majority and as such I think the reason why the defect rates aren't higher.
Another point I've tried to make in the past, but was taken as being offensixve to some of the member here... I think I called ES buyers mostly geriatrics. Whatever the case, I AM NOT BROADBRUSHING HERE, so if you do not fit the following, please take no offense!
I look at people sometimes when I drive... And in recent months, I've been very interested in who's driving the ES and the Camry. It's understood I can't always judge a book by its cover, but there's some real winners driving these cars around... Unfortunately, it's the majority and as such I think the reason why the defect rates aren't higher.
Was just in West Palm Beach Florida for a week. Saw a ton of ES 350's in and around the retirement communities. Many more than the D.C. area where I live. Seems to be a very popular model in South Florida.
03-04-07, 07:17 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
mjm,
I did not actively research trade value but ended up with a shocker on the subject. Blackbook value on these was 28,800 last month, down approx 1,500 from last October and IMO it seems all those e-bay advertised Lexus transmission buybacks are having an impact, that and those not on e-bay that are simply run through local auto-auctions. it seems dealers use that book, among other books, to set a trade allowance on the car, otherwise dealers try to set trade near the lowest auction price anyway in my experiences, guess you cannot blame them for trying to maximize their profit and you do have a say on what you will take, but this transmission issue worsens your position.
Ons mention of VIN is important to note, because they will ask you for VIN or go out to car and get it, BEFORE, they value your trade. If it is a competing manufacturer they provide the VIN to Lexus dealer they call to see what they can get for it. Imagine what may happen to trade figure given if they look it up and see it's service history indicating this transmission issue is present on your car. They will likely low ball the offer to competing manufacturer dealer to make it go away by using that as a means to pass on the deal.
I did not actively research trade value but ended up with a shocker on the subject. Blackbook value on these was 28,800 last month, down approx 1,500 from last October and IMO it seems all those e-bay advertised Lexus transmission buybacks are having an impact, that and those not on e-bay that are simply run through local auto-auctions. it seems dealers use that book, among other books, to set a trade allowance on the car, otherwise dealers try to set trade near the lowest auction price anyway in my experiences, guess you cannot blame them for trying to maximize their profit and you do have a say on what you will take, but this transmission issue worsens your position.
Ons mention of VIN is important to note, because they will ask you for VIN or go out to car and get it, BEFORE, they value your trade. If it is a competing manufacturer they provide the VIN to Lexus dealer they call to see what they can get for it. Imagine what may happen to trade figure given if they look it up and see it's service history indicating this transmission issue is present on your car. They will likely low ball the offer to competing manufacturer dealer to make it go away by using that as a means to pass on the deal.
03-04-07, 07:25 AM
#19
With my line of work, I have access to the auction reports. The last time I checked, the ES 350 was averaging about $32K at the auction. Not sure if these were buybacks or loaner cars that miled out. I will check again on Monday and report back.
As to Black Book, Bob. Yes, you are correct. That is the wholesale book dealers use to purchase cars. Then, for resale on the retail side they use NADA values. We at the bank use NADA values to book units out. We don't use black book.
As to Black Book, Bob. Yes, you are correct. That is the wholesale book dealers use to purchase cars. Then, for resale on the retail side they use NADA values. We at the bank use NADA values to book units out. We don't use black book.
03-04-07, 07:40 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
With my line of work, I have access to the auction reports. The last time I checked, the ES 350 was averaging about $32K at the auction. Not sure if these were buybacks or loaner cars that miled out. I will check again on Monday and report back.
As to Black Book, Bob. Yes, you are correct. That is the wholesale book dealers use to purchase cars. Then, for resale on the retail side they use NADA values. We at the bank use NADA values to book units out. We don't use black book.
As to Black Book, Bob. Yes, you are correct. That is the wholesale book dealers use to purchase cars. Then, for resale on the retail side they use NADA values. We at the bank use NADA values to book units out. We don't use black book.
And that would be with a spotless VIN as to this transmission issue. I know for certain they lowball a VIN reflecting a transmision issue, it happened to me last October. They even try to make a buck off those, offering 27,500 knowing they can then run it through auction and make, what a 1,000 dollars, those rats...LOL
03-04-07, 07:53 AM
#21
LOL MD, You know darn well a dealer is going to try to get you at Blackbook or lower in a trade allowance on your car if they can, but that was not the only book mentioned to me, Manheim(sp?) was as well, it was a little better at 29,200 and higher to 31,500 with more options-UL as related to me, this was just last month.
And that would be with a spotless VIN as to this transmission issue. I know for certain they lowball a VIN reflecting a transmision issue, it happened to me last October. They even try to make a buck off those, offering 27,500 knowing they can then run it through auction and make, what a 1,000 dollars, those rats...LOL
And that would be with a spotless VIN as to this transmission issue. I know for certain they lowball a VIN reflecting a transmision issue, it happened to me last October. They even try to make a buck off those, offering 27,500 knowing they can then run it through auction and make, what a 1,000 dollars, those rats...LOL
03-04-07, 07:58 AM
#22
Lexus Champion
That would be great MD, you can be our man on the street for auction value of these. And we have to factor lower than that to see what the trade allowance will be for us in a real transaction or we will have to allow we will pay closer to MSRP, one way or another a dealer is not likely be going for even, make some $$$$ is the rule.
As for VIN and transmission, do not report it as a trans issue to service while there is no fix, lest you decide to trade and take a real financial bath for even mentioning the transmission related to your VIN.
03-04-07, 08:38 AM
#23
Lexus Champion
No surprise at all there. The ES and Avalon have always appealed to older owners. One of Toyota's objectives with the new gen Avalon was to lower the average age of those buying the car. I suspect Lexus had the same objective with the new gen ES. Last I read, it was working to some degree with the Avalon, but the average age was still in the hi-50's, very close to 60. I'm guessing for the 350 it's up there too, probably a little lower.
03-04-07, 08:50 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
While I mentioned this very point months ago, it will be some time before any real data is available to prove the hypothesis... The Acura dealer had to call a local Toyota dealer to give me a trade in value for my Clamry, so it's not in "the books" so to speak. A point of interest though... The wholesale buyer was there the day I traded and he offered up considerably less than what the Toyota dealer would pay. Since the dealer group I bought the Acura from also sells Toyota, the sales manager said they would trade on the Toyota value and would be transferring the car to them.
Another point I've tried to make in the past, but was taken as being offensixve to some of the member here... I think I called ES buyers mostly geriatrics. Whatever the case, I AM NOT BROADBRUSHING HERE, so if you do not fit the following, please take no offense!
I look at people sometimes when I drive... And in recent months, I've been very interested in who's driving the ES and the Camry. It's understood I can't always judge a book by its cover, but there's some real winners driving these cars around... Unfortunately, it's the majority and as such I think the reason why the defect rates aren't higher.
Another point I've tried to make in the past, but was taken as being offensixve to some of the member here... I think I called ES buyers mostly geriatrics. Whatever the case, I AM NOT BROADBRUSHING HERE, so if you do not fit the following, please take no offense!
I look at people sometimes when I drive... And in recent months, I've been very interested in who's driving the ES and the Camry. It's understood I can't always judge a book by its cover, but there's some real winners driving these cars around... Unfortunately, it's the majority and as such I think the reason why the defect rates aren't higher.
03-04-07, 08:54 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
Specifically to yahoo results, I did not mention it for it's accuracy, but to demonstrate to you that your comment about content on CL is NOT accurate as only place you might see this type/degree of ES transmission data, other issue data. Yahoo is one place you could surf as is the townhall area of Edmunds and see nearly the same thing as here only it is far more detailed here as to actions and interactions in trying to resolve, with far greater member numbers, more than double here as Yahoo and half again as many as Edmunds responses.
If you have been told by your service department that you have had diesel engine noise complaints, wind noise complaints or rattle complaints then you very likely have had transmission complaints too because for the most part they are polling similar degree of occurrence; unless they are also telling you they have had no wind noise complaints, no diesel engine noise complaints and no rattle complaints on the ES which might explain why you are left in the dark on any transmission complaints and would indicate more questioning is in order.
CL and it's members have time and again demonstrated early and accurate info, case in point, oil leak TSIB fix coming out before you even knew it, also valve body failing, and valve body to be yanked. As far as I am concerned CL rules on data on any Lexus, particularly the ES, but any Lexus.
03-04-07, 09:02 AM
#26
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jj,
Specifically to yahoo results, I did not mention it for it's accuracy, but to demonstrate to you that your comment about content on CL is NOT accurate as only place you might see this type/degree of ES transmission data, other issue data. Yahoo is one place you could surf as is the townhall area of Edmunds and see nearly the same thing as here only it is far more detailed here as to actions and interactions in trying to resolve, with far greater member numbers, more than double here as Yahoo and half again as many as Edmunds responses.
If you have been told by your service department that you have had diesel engine noise complaints, wind noise complaints or rattle complaints then you very likely have had transmission complaints too because for the most part they are polling similar degree of occurrence; unless they are also telling you they have had no wind noise complaints, no diesel engine noise complaints and no rattle complaints on the ES which might explain why you are left in the dark on any transmission complaints and would indicate more questioning is in order.
CL and it's members have time and again demonstrated early and accurate info, case in point, oil leak TSIB fix coming out before you even knew it, also valve body failing, and valve body to be yanked. As far as I am concerned CL rules on data on any Lexus, particularly the ES, but any Lexus.
Specifically to yahoo results, I did not mention it for it's accuracy, but to demonstrate to you that your comment about content on CL is NOT accurate as only place you might see this type/degree of ES transmission data, other issue data. Yahoo is one place you could surf as is the townhall area of Edmunds and see nearly the same thing as here only it is far more detailed here as to actions and interactions in trying to resolve, with far greater member numbers, more than double here as Yahoo and half again as many as Edmunds responses.
If you have been told by your service department that you have had diesel engine noise complaints, wind noise complaints or rattle complaints then you very likely have had transmission complaints too because for the most part they are polling similar degree of occurrence; unless they are also telling you they have had no wind noise complaints, no diesel engine noise complaints and no rattle complaints on the ES which might explain why you are left in the dark on any transmission complaints and would indicate more questioning is in order.
CL and it's members have time and again demonstrated early and accurate info, case in point, oil leak TSIB fix coming out before you even knew it, also valve body failing, and valve body to be yanked. As far as I am concerned CL rules on data on any Lexus, particularly the ES, but any Lexus.
Search "Lexus ES350 transmission flare" or "Toyota transmission flare". If a dealer claims they have no issues, I would be highly suspicious. Of course, telling the customer this is normal behavior may be the resolution as well and therefore no issues exist.
03-04-07, 09:07 AM
#27
Lexus Champion
+1 Google is your friend.
Search "Lexus ES350 transmission flare" or "Toyota transmission flare". If a dealer claims they have no issues, I would be highly suspicious. Of course, telling the customer this is normal behavior may be the resolution as well and therefore no issues exist.
Search "Lexus ES350 transmission flare" or "Toyota transmission flare". If a dealer claims they have no issues, I would be highly suspicious. Of course, telling the customer this is normal behavior may be the resolution as well and therefore no issues exist.
....or there have been complaints to intake folks but not able to duplicate for customer so ultimately service manager claims, no haven't had any at all as a result. Quizzing the lower echelon intake folks might prove valuable.
03-04-07, 09:30 AM
#28
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And while I could be wrong in many cases had I the inclination to actually chase down and interview people... It appears more often than not, the people driving these cars have the Barney song looping in their heads.
03-04-07, 09:35 AM
#29
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Another possibility is it would not be the first time or last time that sales was left in the dark by manufacturing--service department equivalent in the car biz-- seen it too many times, sales force treated like mushrooms and left in the dark...LOL...
....or there have been complaints to intake folks but not able to duplicate for customer so ultimately service manager claims, no haven't had any at all as a result. Quizzing the lower echelon intake folks might prove valuable.
....or there have been complaints to intake folks but not able to duplicate for customer so ultimately service manager claims, no haven't had any at all as a result. Quizzing the lower echelon intake folks might prove valuable.
ever heard the saying that if you have a bad experience you tell 10 people but if you have a good one you tell 1 person?
03-04-07, 09:49 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
jj,
It's not just CL reporting this, it's all of the sites you could visit when doing a google search, which is why I pointed out yahoo to you regarding your original claim it is seen only here at CL which upon doing so your view then changed to it must be vocal folks, point was it is not just here.
Otherwise I have no idea why you were exempted unless you are also being told no wind noise or diesel engine noise complaints from customers too which might explain no transmission complaints.
Regardless, be glad you seem not having to deal with it.