My ES350 UL is going to the crusher!!
03-05-07, 07:27 AM
#46
If it was just a ticking noise, I would not be too alarmed. But, the sound is like a knock / lifter problem. None of my previous cars had this noise, be it V6 or now V8s. It is so loud that people ask me if something is wrong with my car. I just say it's a Lexus and the noise was diagnosed as normal. Wonder how many people I turn off when I discuss the noise and transmission replacement. Also, the loaners I have driven (RX350 and IS250) did not have this noise when cold. They were Lexus perfect.
03-05-07, 07:41 AM
#47
If it was just a ticking noise, I would not be too alarmed. But, the sound is like a knock / lifter problem. None of my previous cars had this noise, be it V6 or now V8s. It is so loud that people ask me if something is wrong with my car. I just say it's a Lexus and the noise was diagnosed as normal. Wonder how many people I turn off when I discuss the noise and transmission replacement. Also, the loaners I have driven (RX350 and IS250) did not have this noise when cold. They were Lexus perfect.
03-05-07, 10:00 AM
#48
Pete,
From your former mechanic perspective it would be great to get your opinion on this diesel engine noise.
First note: dunnojacks recording is what most with the diesel engine sound would describe to you as their typical idle sound whether the engine is cold or fully warmed up.
BUT: Add workload stress to the engine when from a cold start as in putting it in drive and what you hear inside the car is VERY different than dunno's shared experiences so far and a different noise than his recording sound contains.
If you have ever cranked a boat trailer's wheel up or down to hitch or un-hitch the trailer from tow ball it is like that cranking sound where the teeth are making noise only a MUCH duller quality of tone rapid thumping/knocking sound and it lasts for the first 5 minutes/5 to 7 miles +/- of driving the car until it reaches hot. It is so loud you can hear this knocking inside the car and it is a noise above the sound of the otherwise acceleration sound whether cold engine or hot engine without this knocking. I see garsarno has indicated his is lasting up to half an hour now not just the typical first 5 minutes of driving.
Cold engines are noisier than warmed up ones, but this is something above and beyond a cold engine as it warms up. To get an idea, start your car cold, accelerate it and imagine a sort of rythmic knocking sound on top of the normal acceleration sound like the handle end of a butter knife rapidly against a dull metal object.
From your former mechanic perspective it would be great to get your opinion on this diesel engine noise.
First note: dunnojacks recording is what most with the diesel engine sound would describe to you as their typical idle sound whether the engine is cold or fully warmed up.
BUT: Add workload stress to the engine when from a cold start as in putting it in drive and what you hear inside the car is VERY different than dunno's shared experiences so far and a different noise than his recording sound contains.
If you have ever cranked a boat trailer's wheel up or down to hitch or un-hitch the trailer from tow ball it is like that cranking sound where the teeth are making noise only a MUCH duller quality of tone rapid thumping/knocking sound and it lasts for the first 5 minutes/5 to 7 miles +/- of driving the car until it reaches hot. It is so loud you can hear this knocking inside the car and it is a noise above the sound of the otherwise acceleration sound whether cold engine or hot engine without this knocking. I see garsarno has indicated his is lasting up to half an hour now not just the typical first 5 minutes of driving.
Cold engines are noisier than warmed up ones, but this is something above and beyond a cold engine as it warms up. To get an idea, start your car cold, accelerate it and imagine a sort of rythmic knocking sound on top of the normal acceleration sound like the handle end of a butter knife rapidly against a dull metal object.
Pete
03-05-07, 02:01 PM
#50
Well, I called our Lexus dealership today to schedule the first oil change. Got voice mail again for the 13th time (I have been counting since the first transmission flare last year). Left message again as they guys hide behind voice mail. I have never seen them answer a telephone call at all. This is why, after the first free service, my local garage will be doing the maintenance service. They keep the documentation in their computer system.
03-05-07, 06:33 PM
#51
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Reading about the engine knock nose here reminds me of the day I did a big bore kit on my motorcycle – 70’s. After the kit was installed I had a problem with a knocking sound coming from the engine at cold start idle. People told me my bottom end went bad and I was hearing the rod ends. Well I’m one that like’s to know how things work and this problem wasn’t going to beat me, I tore down the big bore engine and reinstall OEM cylinders, pistons, head gasket, once assembled start the engine (colds start). No knock. It was just like before I started this project. Well so much for the rod end theory. So I ordered another new Big bore kit thinking something was wrong with the first kit. Again tear down install big bore kit cylinders, pistons, head gasket, finish up and start the engine, again a loud dull bass knocking sound at idle. I found the knocking was only there at idle, if I took it off idle say 1500-2000 RPM , no knock, back to idle knocking again. #2 when the big bore engine came up to operating temp no more knocking at idle, well maybe a very slight knock but you had to really listen for it. Probably due to the tapered piston expanding, if I remember correctly .003-.005. I did this swapping OEM – Big Bore tear down thing 3 times in hope I could find out what was causing the knock. I finally solved the problem by installing two big bore head gaskets. Worked perfect. The problem was Aluminum contraction (cold start) and tolerance. Turns out the part that cause all this was the big bore kit head gasket being to thin (tolerance). It caused the pistons at top center to just ever so slightly tap the cylinder head when cold. I checked all parts involved – cylinder head, pistons, cylinder walls no sign of any damage to them, but will say the piston shirt had some light scores from ware probably due to the piston at top center, tilting (tapping cylinder head) before going down. The knocking can be an annoying sound especially when emendating out of Aluminum.
The other sound, ticking sound probably are from valve lash out of spec, remember this car has a roller valve arm that come in contact with the cam, that’s two points of contact – cam and valve each time. Talking with the guys (mine you mostly mag jockeys with some experience) at work, rollers are a little more noisy than cam on buckets. If all valve are out of lash spec. it could sound like a bunch of clatter. You got 24 valve and 48 contact points in there.
Injector noise is more like a pop sound as they go off. Usually the noisy one’s are in diesel truck engines. I use to work alone side some diesel mechanics setting the injectors pop off psi. Wow they are loud. Our ES injectors are pretty quite. So now we have **Knock**Tic**Tap**Pop**.
In my opinion I believe the loud engine noise in some of these builds is due to bad vendor head gaskets (or tighten down to much) and assembly valve lash problems.
The other sound, ticking sound probably are from valve lash out of spec, remember this car has a roller valve arm that come in contact with the cam, that’s two points of contact – cam and valve each time. Talking with the guys (mine you mostly mag jockeys with some experience) at work, rollers are a little more noisy than cam on buckets. If all valve are out of lash spec. it could sound like a bunch of clatter. You got 24 valve and 48 contact points in there.
Injector noise is more like a pop sound as they go off. Usually the noisy one’s are in diesel truck engines. I use to work alone side some diesel mechanics setting the injectors pop off psi. Wow they are loud. Our ES injectors are pretty quite. So now we have **Knock**Tic**Tap**Pop**.
In my opinion I believe the loud engine noise in some of these builds is due to bad vendor head gaskets (or tighten down to much) and assembly valve lash problems.
Last edited by osokuko; 03-05-07 at 06:37 PM.
03-05-07, 06:36 PM
#52
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03-05-07, 07:07 PM
#53
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I think because these items for the most part are not damaging to the engine Lexus probably feels it doesn’t warrant the cost. To take the heads off for a gasket or spend time resetting the lash. But I think if it’s noisy it should be fix especially at 40-48K.
03-07-07, 01:45 PM
#55
First oil change done, waited 45 minutes and the car was washed even though it snowed here and the roads were messy. Seemed smoother. Let the car sit outside for three hours in 15 degree temperature and started up. No knock or ticking noise. The real test will be overnight in 10 degree temps. Will start up in early morning and listen.
03-07-07, 02:12 PM
#56
First oil change done, waited 45 minutes and the car was washed even though it snowed here and the roads were messy. Seemed smoother. Let the car sit outside for three hours in 15 degree temperature and started up. No knock or ticking noise. The real test will be overnight in 10 degree temps. Will start up in early morning and listen.
03-07-07, 02:14 PM
#57
Probably bulk oil. I am considering Mobil 1 as I have run this oil since the mid 90s in all my cars, changing the oil / filter every 4,000 miles or 4 months. My '98 Lumina LTZ is still going strong with it's new owner in 2003 and has 175,000+ miles with no engine issues.
03-08-07, 05:14 AM
#58
Well, 10 degree weather overnight. Started the car this morning and the knock noise still there after the first oil change. Tried to be optimistic but it is a noise I will need to continue to explain to people who ask what / why it's there.
03-08-07, 05:28 AM
#59
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Garsarno,
It is a mechanical problem an oil change will not help.
They know what is causing it and simply refuse to repair it as it is very costly and takes many man hours to address.
03-08-07, 06:01 AM
#60
Your right but the cost is far outweighed by the number of people I have discussed the problems with and have swayed to buy something else instead of a Lexus. I am to the point where, if someone asks me about the noises with the car, I comment I should have bought another Lincoln.