ES350 Review: New York Times
01-29-07, 07:03 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
OK, let me help you a little bit.
"Quiet?"....I think not. The engine clatter is unbelievably loud and disquieting. Just listen to the quiet hum of the ES300 and compare it to the diesel like sounds coming from under the hood of the ES350.
"Driving?" Again, NOT!!! Try taking a 30° sweeper turn at over 35 miles an hour. The puny tires feel like they're about to shred, the car feels like it wants to plow straight ahead, and the body lean feels like the Titanic.
"Transmission linkage?" All I can say is BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. What linkage? You put your foot on the gas and settle down to wait until the dreadful "throttle by wire" disaster sends a memo to the tranny that it might actually be about time to motivate the car. A few seconds later you're walloped in the back by a big and unwanted thrust of accelleration. Reminds me of my Volvo 850 turbo. And things get even worse (MUCH worse) when you accelerate from a rolling start. The accelerator in this car should just have a big "?" painted on it because you never know exactly what you're going to get. Have any of you ever floored it while driving around 50mph (like to get around another driver)? It's like an episode of "Deal or No Deal." Who knows how long it's going to take before the car finally gets the message that it's time to get going. 1 second? 3 seconds? It's anyone's guess.
Interior appointments? What interior appointments? The passenger side of the dash is a wasteland. Cold and sterile. The car cries out for a strip of wood over the passenger side dash. What were they thinking here? Bad place to cut costs. What does a strip of wood cost anyway?
Steering? Vague and terribly imprecise. And you feel every road imperfection through the steering wheel without "feeling the road." Nice trick Lexus. Design in all the negatives and none of the positives.
Brakes? Spongy and, again, imprecise. They don't "hit" the way they're supposed to when you apply a brake.
Positives? Once the engine and tranny sign an armistace and cease hostilities the engine has decent straight ahead power and gas mileage for such a powerful powerplant is awesome (in day to day driving around the NYC/Long Island area I'm averaging around 23mpg on regular). The nav system is superb and leaves the Germans in the dust. They should be ashamed of themselves at this point not to have touch screen systems yet. Christ, you can still drop close to $100k on a M-B S550 and still have to input information from a wheel!!! Why don't they throw in a turntable for an audio system? Talk about archaic! The backup camera is nice and a much needed feature in view of the terrible rearward visibility.
Seat warmers/ventillation controls? Their placement is so bad as to be almost bizarre. Tucked away underneath the central consol's front? You need a search party to find them. Talk about an "accident waiting to happen"!!!
Exterior styling? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...way too similar to it's plebian Camry bretheren. Huge side slab doors cry out for something to break up the uninterrupted expanse of steel.
OK guys, flame away!
;-)
"Quiet?"....I think not. The engine clatter is unbelievably loud and disquieting. Just listen to the quiet hum of the ES300 and compare it to the diesel like sounds coming from under the hood of the ES350.
"Driving?" Again, NOT!!! Try taking a 30° sweeper turn at over 35 miles an hour. The puny tires feel like they're about to shred, the car feels like it wants to plow straight ahead, and the body lean feels like the Titanic.
"Transmission linkage?" All I can say is BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. What linkage? You put your foot on the gas and settle down to wait until the dreadful "throttle by wire" disaster sends a memo to the tranny that it might actually be about time to motivate the car. A few seconds later you're walloped in the back by a big and unwanted thrust of accelleration. Reminds me of my Volvo 850 turbo. And things get even worse (MUCH worse) when you accelerate from a rolling start. The accelerator in this car should just have a big "?" painted on it because you never know exactly what you're going to get. Have any of you ever floored it while driving around 50mph (like to get around another driver)? It's like an episode of "Deal or No Deal." Who knows how long it's going to take before the car finally gets the message that it's time to get going. 1 second? 3 seconds? It's anyone's guess.
Interior appointments? What interior appointments? The passenger side of the dash is a wasteland. Cold and sterile. The car cries out for a strip of wood over the passenger side dash. What were they thinking here? Bad place to cut costs. What does a strip of wood cost anyway?
Steering? Vague and terribly imprecise. And you feel every road imperfection through the steering wheel without "feeling the road." Nice trick Lexus. Design in all the negatives and none of the positives.
Brakes? Spongy and, again, imprecise. They don't "hit" the way they're supposed to when you apply a brake.
Positives? Once the engine and tranny sign an armistace and cease hostilities the engine has decent straight ahead power and gas mileage for such a powerful powerplant is awesome (in day to day driving around the NYC/Long Island area I'm averaging around 23mpg on regular). The nav system is superb and leaves the Germans in the dust. They should be ashamed of themselves at this point not to have touch screen systems yet. Christ, you can still drop close to $100k on a M-B S550 and still have to input information from a wheel!!! Why don't they throw in a turntable for an audio system? Talk about archaic! The backup camera is nice and a much needed feature in view of the terrible rearward visibility.
Seat warmers/ventillation controls? Their placement is so bad as to be almost bizarre. Tucked away underneath the central consol's front? You need a search party to find them. Talk about an "accident waiting to happen"!!!
Exterior styling? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...way too similar to it's plebian Camry bretheren. Huge side slab doors cry out for something to break up the uninterrupted expanse of steel.
OK guys, flame away!
;-)
LOL Psych....can you tell us what you really think?
I agree, flat out, no comparison between quietness of ES300 and block party of ES350 engine and then there is the wind and exterior sound intrusion. ES300 was the standard for quiet ride be it engine or wind noise.
And OMG...you noticed the rolling start, as if rolling in a convenience store parking lot to access the road and then......WAIT....for the actual accel to occur with a shove in the back when it does. Also this is the worst flare/slip possible when it happens as a result of rolling to and cautiously through an intersection and adding acceleration.
Somewhere, there is a memo prompted by your visit to Taste of Lexus..note to selves---------, never, ever, have an ignition key required Benz at a Taste of Lexus gathering after we had to pry the key out of the hand of that visitor after first prying him out of the Benz...
BTW: I could not help but notice your, unintended I'm sure, oversight in not mentioning the adjustment of seat positions....LOL
01-29-07, 07:20 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
OK, let me help you a little bit.
"Quiet?"....I think not. The engine clatter is unbelievably loud and disquieting. Just listen to the quiet hum of the ES300 and compare it to the diesel like sounds coming from under the hood of the ES350.
"Driving?" Again, NOT!!! Try taking a 30° sweeper turn at over 35 miles an hour. The puny tires feel like they're about to shred, the car feels like it wants to plow straight ahead, and the body lean feels like the Titanic.
"Transmission linkage?" All I can say is BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. What linkage? You put your foot on the gas and settle down to wait until the dreadful "throttle by wire" disaster sends a memo to the tranny that it might actually be about time to motivate the car. A few seconds later you're walloped in the back by a big and unwanted thrust of accelleration. Reminds me of my Volvo 850 turbo. And things get even worse (MUCH worse) when you accelerate from a rolling start. The accelerator in this car should just have a big "?" painted on it because you never know exactly what you're going to get. Have any of you ever floored it while driving around 50mph (like to get around another driver)? It's like an episode of "Deal or No Deal." Who knows how long it's going to take before the car finally gets the message that it's time to get going. 1 second? 3 seconds? It's anyone's guess.
Interior appointments? What interior appointments? The passenger side of the dash is a wasteland. Cold and sterile. The car cries out for a strip of wood over the passenger side dash. What were they thinking here? Bad place to cut costs. What does a strip of wood cost anyway?
Steering? Vague and terribly imprecise. And you feel every road imperfection through the steering wheel without "feeling the road." Nice trick Lexus. Design in all the negatives and none of the positives.
Brakes? Spongy and, again, imprecise. They don't "hit" the way they're supposed to when you apply a brake.
Positives? Once the engine and tranny sign an armistace and cease hostilities the engine has decent straight ahead power and gas mileage for such a powerful powerplant is awesome (in day to day driving around the NYC/Long Island area I'm averaging around 23mpg on regular). The nav system is superb and leaves the Germans in the dust. They should be ashamed of themselves at this point not to have touch screen systems yet. Christ, you can still drop close to $100k on a M-B S550 and still have to input information from a wheel!!! Why don't they throw in a turntable for an audio system? Talk about archaic! The backup camera is nice and a much needed feature in view of the terrible rearward visibility.
Seat warmers/ventillation controls? Their placement is so bad as to be almost bizarre. Tucked away underneath the central consol's front? You need a search party to find them. Talk about an "accident waiting to happen"!!!
Exterior styling? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...way too similar to it's plebian Camry bretheren. Huge side slab doors cry out for something to break up the uninterrupted expanse of steel.
OK guys, flame away!
;-)
"Quiet?"....I think not. The engine clatter is unbelievably loud and disquieting. Just listen to the quiet hum of the ES300 and compare it to the diesel like sounds coming from under the hood of the ES350.
"Driving?" Again, NOT!!! Try taking a 30° sweeper turn at over 35 miles an hour. The puny tires feel like they're about to shred, the car feels like it wants to plow straight ahead, and the body lean feels like the Titanic.
"Transmission linkage?" All I can say is BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. What linkage? You put your foot on the gas and settle down to wait until the dreadful "throttle by wire" disaster sends a memo to the tranny that it might actually be about time to motivate the car. A few seconds later you're walloped in the back by a big and unwanted thrust of accelleration. Reminds me of my Volvo 850 turbo. And things get even worse (MUCH worse) when you accelerate from a rolling start. The accelerator in this car should just have a big "?" painted on it because you never know exactly what you're going to get. Have any of you ever floored it while driving around 50mph (like to get around another driver)? It's like an episode of "Deal or No Deal." Who knows how long it's going to take before the car finally gets the message that it's time to get going. 1 second? 3 seconds? It's anyone's guess.
Interior appointments? What interior appointments? The passenger side of the dash is a wasteland. Cold and sterile. The car cries out for a strip of wood over the passenger side dash. What were they thinking here? Bad place to cut costs. What does a strip of wood cost anyway?
Steering? Vague and terribly imprecise. And you feel every road imperfection through the steering wheel without "feeling the road." Nice trick Lexus. Design in all the negatives and none of the positives.
Brakes? Spongy and, again, imprecise. They don't "hit" the way they're supposed to when you apply a brake.
Positives? Once the engine and tranny sign an armistace and cease hostilities the engine has decent straight ahead power and gas mileage for such a powerful powerplant is awesome (in day to day driving around the NYC/Long Island area I'm averaging around 23mpg on regular). The nav system is superb and leaves the Germans in the dust. They should be ashamed of themselves at this point not to have touch screen systems yet. Christ, you can still drop close to $100k on a M-B S550 and still have to input information from a wheel!!! Why don't they throw in a turntable for an audio system? Talk about archaic! The backup camera is nice and a much needed feature in view of the terrible rearward visibility.
Seat warmers/ventillation controls? Their placement is so bad as to be almost bizarre. Tucked away underneath the central consol's front? You need a search party to find them. Talk about an "accident waiting to happen"!!!
Exterior styling? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...way too similar to it's plebian Camry bretheren. Huge side slab doors cry out for something to break up the uninterrupted expanse of steel.
OK guys, flame away!
;-)
01-29-07, 07:50 AM
#18
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you should just end it now- send it off a cliff
did you actually drive and look at it before you got it or were you forced at gunpoint to buy the car?
I still think for $35000 its a great car.
I for one am happy not to hear the hydrolic fan noise of my ES300 anymore, that was always annoying
did you actually drive and look at it before you got it or were you forced at gunpoint to buy the car?
I still think for $35000 its a great car.
I for one am happy not to hear the hydrolic fan noise of my ES300 anymore, that was always annoying
01-29-07, 08:35 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
Rob and LexBob,
Here is another view of Psych's viewpoint rather than view he needs run off into the sunset, see what you think of this approach.
I doubt he has shared anything Lexus has not already heard when getting back their Product Quality Survey, esp. the area where it asks for ideas to improve.
Take his style view or any of the other mentions.
If you are his dealer you'd suggest he consider body side mouldings to spice up his exterior if he felt that would please him after showing him the difference with and without, no doubt it is one reason Lexus even offers them, to satisfy those who may feel their car would lack something in the style category so thay offer them as an option.
There is sufficient input from he and others as to engine noise, not related to knocking tapping, but general noise. Suggest there is plenty of clearance between rear of engine and firewall to add another layer of noise abatement for him and others too.
The hesitation when rolling and then adding accel noted by he and others not related to an actual transmission mechanical problem, easy, a software update at some point will address that.
Now keyless ignition, nothing can be done about that to my knowledge and it is his well known pet peave, but most everything he shared has an approach that can be taken that does not include sending him off into the sunset.
Here is another view of Psych's viewpoint rather than view he needs run off into the sunset, see what you think of this approach.
I doubt he has shared anything Lexus has not already heard when getting back their Product Quality Survey, esp. the area where it asks for ideas to improve.
Take his style view or any of the other mentions.
If you are his dealer you'd suggest he consider body side mouldings to spice up his exterior if he felt that would please him after showing him the difference with and without, no doubt it is one reason Lexus even offers them, to satisfy those who may feel their car would lack something in the style category so thay offer them as an option.
There is sufficient input from he and others as to engine noise, not related to knocking tapping, but general noise. Suggest there is plenty of clearance between rear of engine and firewall to add another layer of noise abatement for him and others too.
The hesitation when rolling and then adding accel noted by he and others not related to an actual transmission mechanical problem, easy, a software update at some point will address that.
Now keyless ignition, nothing can be done about that to my knowledge and it is his well known pet peave, but most everything he shared has an approach that can be taken that does not include sending him off into the sunset.
01-29-07, 08:55 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
Rob and LexBob,
Here is another view of Psych's viewpoint rather than view he needs run off into the sunset, see what you think of this approach.
I doubt he has shared anything Lexus has not already heard when getting back their Product Quality Survey, esp. the area where it asks for ideas to improve.
Take his style view or any of the other mentions.
If you are his dealer you'd suggest he consider body side mouldings to spice up his exterior if he felt that would please him after showing him the difference with and without, no doubt it is one reason Lexus even offers them, to satisfy those who may feel their car would lack something in the style category so thay offer them as an option.
There is sufficient input from he and others as to engine noise, not related to knocking tapping, but general noise. Suggest there is plenty of clearance between rear of engine and firewall to add another layer of noise abatement for him and others too.
The hesitation when rolling and then adding accel noted by he and others not related to an actual transmission mechanical problem, easy, a software update at some point will address that.
Now keyless ignition, nothing can be done about that to my knowledge and it is his well known pet peave, but most everything he shared has an approach that can be taken that does not include sending him off into the sunset.
Here is another view of Psych's viewpoint rather than view he needs run off into the sunset, see what you think of this approach.
I doubt he has shared anything Lexus has not already heard when getting back their Product Quality Survey, esp. the area where it asks for ideas to improve.
Take his style view or any of the other mentions.
If you are his dealer you'd suggest he consider body side mouldings to spice up his exterior if he felt that would please him after showing him the difference with and without, no doubt it is one reason Lexus even offers them, to satisfy those who may feel their car would lack something in the style category so thay offer them as an option.
There is sufficient input from he and others as to engine noise, not related to knocking tapping, but general noise. Suggest there is plenty of clearance between rear of engine and firewall to add another layer of noise abatement for him and others too.
The hesitation when rolling and then adding accel noted by he and others not related to an actual transmission mechanical problem, easy, a software update at some point will address that.
Now keyless ignition, nothing can be done about that to my knowledge and it is his well known pet peave, but most everything he shared has an approach that can be taken that does not include sending him off into the sunset.
01-29-07, 08:58 AM
#21
Lexus Champion
Thanks, I have them on mine and they really do look sharp on an ES350, my former did not have them and I'd probably veer towards psych's view of styling without them.
01-29-07, 09:03 AM
#22
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whatever my car did it did on its test drive before I got the car, I drove my car as well as the dealer demo.
Only time I can hear some of that engine noise is when its cold and I have the radio off, I can hear a slight diesel noise. Then it warms up and goes away. Could be something with the catalytic coverter for all I know having to warm up.
Either way I will say it again- the car has PLENTY of warranty left in it and if the worse of the car is a little wind noise and a very light engine noise when its very cold- Ill take that and wait for the TSBs to be updated.
If that never happens THEN I might complain about things, but by then I will be getting another car anyhow.
"hey I wont the lotto!!"
"eh, big deal, your going to have to give half to taxes"
Only time I can hear some of that engine noise is when its cold and I have the radio off, I can hear a slight diesel noise. Then it warms up and goes away. Could be something with the catalytic coverter for all I know having to warm up.
Either way I will say it again- the car has PLENTY of warranty left in it and if the worse of the car is a little wind noise and a very light engine noise when its very cold- Ill take that and wait for the TSBs to be updated.
If that never happens THEN I might complain about things, but by then I will be getting another car anyhow.
"hey I wont the lotto!!"
"eh, big deal, your going to have to give half to taxes"
01-29-07, 09:04 AM
#23
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In fairness I should also add that in terms of value per dollar the ES350 offers a lot. To get a similarly equipped M-B E350, BMW 530i or Audi A6 you'd have to spend ~$58k or at least $15k more.
And you're still be stuck with their horse and buggy nav systems.
But I really want to know who designed their seat heater/ventillation controls (or, more accurately, their placement).
Dr. Kevorkian perhaps?
And you're still be stuck with their horse and buggy nav systems.
But I really want to know who designed their seat heater/ventillation controls (or, more accurately, their placement).
Dr. Kevorkian perhaps?
Last edited by PsychDoc; 01-29-07 at 09:08 AM.
01-29-07, 09:08 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
01-29-07, 09:09 AM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Wow. Doc, if I hated anything as much as you hate your Lexus, I'd get rid of it. How do you even stand looking at it in the morning without throwing up?
I'm being a bit facetious, but I'm seriously wondering why you bought the car, and why you haven't dumped it.
I'm being a bit facetious, but I'm seriously wondering why you bought the car, and why you haven't dumped it.
01-29-07, 09:23 AM
#26
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Infinity M35x - Hated the styling, dealership seemed more used to dealing with trailer park trash than with an upscale clientele, the transmission was jerky and it wasn't as cheap as it should have been.
BMW 530xi - Best driving car I've ever driven...simply superb in every dynamic respect. Spartan beyond words inside, horse and buggy nav system (that's a biggie on my list of priorities), ridiculously overpriced and lacking in high tech bells and whistles. Oh, did I mention OVERPRICED?
M-B E350 - Nice driving car. TREMENDOUS power and great brakes. Same nav system complaint as with all German offerings. Huge, ungainly steering wheel and fit and finish that really didn't thrill me. Reliability record that would embarrass a Kia. Overpriced but leases OK as M-B is losing market share and they know it so they're subsidizing their leases. Doors sounded tinny when closing them. Not the marque it once was.
Audi A6 - Simply gorgeous car inside and out. The interior, in particular, is in a league of it's own. Sadly, saddled with the same archaic nav system as it's German bretheren. Very nice price for a car of this quality. Would have bought it if not for the fact that the 3.1 liter (it's not a 3.2 as you might expect from it's designation) was simply way too anaemic to move along a car of this size with power robbing quatro. Off the line, in particular, it was slow, slow, slow. Seemed like it took forever to get from 0-30. After that it wasn't bad, but be prepared for a nap until you get to 30mph (I tried it with two different vehicles just to be sure of this and yes, it was beyond slow in both).
The ES350 was and is a bargain in this field but it has some very serious shortcomings.
Sorry guys. Don't kill the messenger just because you don't like the message.
01-29-07, 09:25 AM
#27
Lexus Champion
01-29-07, 09:57 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
Listen, it was down to the:
Infinity M35x - Hated the styling, dealership seemed more used to dealing with trailer park trash than with an upscale clientele, the transmission was jerky and it wasn't as cheap as it should have been.
BMW 530xi - Best driving car I've ever driven...simply superb in every dynamic respect. Spartan beyond words inside, horse and buggy nav system (that's a biggie on my list of priorities), ridiculously overpriced and lacking in high tech bells and whistles. Oh, did I mention OVERPRICED?
M-B E350 - Nice driving car. TREMENDOUS power and great brakes. Same nav system complaint as with all German offerings. Huge, ungainly steering wheel and fit and finish that really didn't thrill me. Reliability record that would embarrass a Kia. Overpriced but leases OK as M-B is losing market share and they know it so they're subsidizing their leases. Doors sounded tinny when closing them. Not the marque it once was.
Audi A6 - Simply gorgeous car inside and out. The interior, in particular, is in a league of it's own. Sadly, saddled with the same archaic nav system as it's German bretheren. Very nice price for a car of this quality. Would have bought it if not for the fact that the 3.1 liter (it's not a 3.2 as you might expect from it's designation) was simply way too anaemic to move along a car of this size with power robbing quatro. Off the line, in particular, it was slow, slow, slow. Seemed like it took forever to get from 0-30. After that it wasn't bad, but be prepared for a nap until you get to 30mph (I tried it with two different vehicles just to be sure of this and yes, it was beyond slow in both).
The ES350 was and is a bargain in this field but it has some very serious shortcomings.
Sorry guys. Don't kill the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Infinity M35x - Hated the styling, dealership seemed more used to dealing with trailer park trash than with an upscale clientele, the transmission was jerky and it wasn't as cheap as it should have been.
BMW 530xi - Best driving car I've ever driven...simply superb in every dynamic respect. Spartan beyond words inside, horse and buggy nav system (that's a biggie on my list of priorities), ridiculously overpriced and lacking in high tech bells and whistles. Oh, did I mention OVERPRICED?
M-B E350 - Nice driving car. TREMENDOUS power and great brakes. Same nav system complaint as with all German offerings. Huge, ungainly steering wheel and fit and finish that really didn't thrill me. Reliability record that would embarrass a Kia. Overpriced but leases OK as M-B is losing market share and they know it so they're subsidizing their leases. Doors sounded tinny when closing them. Not the marque it once was.
Audi A6 - Simply gorgeous car inside and out. The interior, in particular, is in a league of it's own. Sadly, saddled with the same archaic nav system as it's German bretheren. Very nice price for a car of this quality. Would have bought it if not for the fact that the 3.1 liter (it's not a 3.2 as you might expect from it's designation) was simply way too anaemic to move along a car of this size with power robbing quatro. Off the line, in particular, it was slow, slow, slow. Seemed like it took forever to get from 0-30. After that it wasn't bad, but be prepared for a nap until you get to 30mph (I tried it with two different vehicles just to be sure of this and yes, it was beyond slow in both).
The ES350 was and is a bargain in this field but it has some very serious shortcomings.
Sorry guys. Don't kill the messenger just because you don't like the message.
01-29-07, 10:11 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
To all of you guys that hate the "problems" that this ES350 seems to be plagued with......the only thing for you to do is GET RID OF YOUR CAR. I know that is exactly what I would do.
I guess I was one of the few that love my car in all respects and everytime I get into the car I'm loving it more!
Engine noises.....Absolutely not!
Rattles.......Absolutely not!
Transmission flare......Absolutely not!
You name any kind of problem and my car has none of them!
I sorta feel sorry for the problems that you have, but hey..... with your mindset, you'd probably complain about every type of appliance, whether electronic or mechanical that you own.
Once again, if you're soooo unhappy with your vehicle then dump it, and when you find an automobile that suits your needs then tell us all about it.
I guess I was one of the few that love my car in all respects and everytime I get into the car I'm loving it more!
Engine noises.....Absolutely not!
Rattles.......Absolutely not!
Transmission flare......Absolutely not!
You name any kind of problem and my car has none of them!
I sorta feel sorry for the problems that you have, but hey..... with your mindset, you'd probably complain about every type of appliance, whether electronic or mechanical that you own.
Once again, if you're soooo unhappy with your vehicle then dump it, and when you find an automobile that suits your needs then tell us all about it.
01-29-07, 10:14 AM
#30
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Doc, did you consider the GS when shopping (maybe the GS350 wasn't out yet?)? I wonder, if compared to the cars above, the GS would have addressed some of your concerns and issues with the ES. It might have compared more favorably from a performance/handling/content standpoint. I think it was you who said, that the german brands (including VW too) all seem to be overpriced and under equipped. I tend to agree.
The GS300 was out when I was doing my cross shopping. I DESPISE it's hatchback looking design and in spite of any published specs to the contrary, it's amazingly cramped inside. The rear seat is only good for kids under the age of 10 and the trunk is so small you'd be lucky to fit two bags of groceries in there without a shoe horn. I did like the driving dynamics and I thought it was in the same league as the BMW in this respect though not quite as good. I'd imagine the GS350 would even be better. Again, however, in typical Lexus fashion, there is a total disconnect between the engine and the transmission. It's like they communicate with one another through smoke signals. In keeping with the L-Finesse design mandates, it's interior was/is way too spartan and lacking in warmth (read: wood).
I ruled it out based on the horrid exterior styling and cramped interior. They really did get the cahssis right though. Now if they could just make an engine and tranny that operated like they knew one another....
Ah well, to dream the impossible dream.
My ideal car:
Power of M-B, tranny/engine mating of the BMW, exterior styling of the M-B or BMW (I've HATED Chris Bangle designs, but the 5 series has really grown on me), Audi interior, BMW driving dynamics, Lexus nav and bells and whistles, Lexus quality control and fit and finish and Lexus pricing.
Now that would be a car I'd buy in a heartbeat.
They could call it the "BMW-Mer-Audi-Lex."