Oh my gosh!! My car had the transmission replaced before I got it.
02-28-07, 01:03 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
I realize this thread is fairly dead but wanted to post the conclusion in case anyone searches this in the future. After several weeks of phone tag, I called the dealership yesterday and talked to someone higher up. He was very nice, and I can tell he has had this conversation before. What we decided upon is just for me to watch this longer and see how it goes - I am not going to throw another transmission in now when the flare now seems rather infrequent. I did learn several things from him that I should share:
1. There is no such thing as a global all encompassing platinum warranty. Just because your transmission is replaced does not mean they will necessarily offer this. He said I was misinformed. The big take home message from the conversation was Lexus will do whatever is necessary to make the customer happy, and no two persons and their dealings will be the same. It is a case by case scenario. 2. There are no more transmission flares in the new builds, all of the problem cars were caught before they arrived from Japan. 3. The transmission apparantely has a brain and can change on the fly depending on driving conditions, speed, etc. I confess I could not follow his thinking on this one mostly because I have no idea about cars, transmissions, etc. One thing I did learn that is interesting is you cannot go to the dealership and say the car slips, or flares 5 times a day for 4 weeks. The apparently can hook it up to a computer and confirm how, when, etc. Interesting. 4. There is mostly 100% misinformation out there on the forums mostly from a few disgruntled persons. 5. They were under no obligation legally to tell me my almost new car I bought already had transmission problems/replacement. 6. You get the idea, a spin doctor. Very nice to talk with but in the end I figured nothing really was changed for me. Frustrating. Anyway, my overall feeling is similar to "you will eat your spinach and like it!!"
Thanks all for your input in the past. I tend to view these boards as very very helpful, but as in other instances in the past, the information I learned here is not accepted by the dealerships. It may be in my presentation??
1. There is no such thing as a global all encompassing platinum warranty. Just because your transmission is replaced does not mean they will necessarily offer this. He said I was misinformed. The big take home message from the conversation was Lexus will do whatever is necessary to make the customer happy, and no two persons and their dealings will be the same. It is a case by case scenario. 2. There are no more transmission flares in the new builds, all of the problem cars were caught before they arrived from Japan. 3. The transmission apparantely has a brain and can change on the fly depending on driving conditions, speed, etc. I confess I could not follow his thinking on this one mostly because I have no idea about cars, transmissions, etc. One thing I did learn that is interesting is you cannot go to the dealership and say the car slips, or flares 5 times a day for 4 weeks. The apparently can hook it up to a computer and confirm how, when, etc. Interesting. 4. There is mostly 100% misinformation out there on the forums mostly from a few disgruntled persons. 5. They were under no obligation legally to tell me my almost new car I bought already had transmission problems/replacement. 6. You get the idea, a spin doctor. Very nice to talk with but in the end I figured nothing really was changed for me. Frustrating. Anyway, my overall feeling is similar to "you will eat your spinach and like it!!"
Thanks all for your input in the past. I tend to view these boards as very very helpful, but as in other instances in the past, the information I learned here is not accepted by the dealerships. It may be in my presentation??
As for the comments made to you, reading those could make it difficult to feel sorry for dealers otherwise caught in the middle of this transmission fiasco when it is obvious some willingly leap right into the middle with both feet being devious with customers. And in this case so bold as to tell you they were under no obligation to reveal the transmission to you at purchase which implies they were aware of it and instead gave you a story of why that car is on their lot for sale.
It is not your presentation at all, so don't even think it is, I'm sure you did just fine.
02-28-07, 01:16 PM
#47
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if a customer does not ask to review the service history, where should a dealership stop with disclosing items that were repaired under warranty? power window switch? a/c compressor? cv joint? transmission? my point is, lots of items are repaired under warranty by lexus dealerships every single day. those parts will still have warranty coverage. where do you draw the line at which a dealer must disclose things without being asked?
02-28-07, 01:26 PM
#48
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if a customer does not ask to review the service history, where should a dealership stop with disclosing items that were repaired under warranty? power window switch? a/c compressor? cv joint? transmission? my point is, lots of items are repaired under warranty by lexus dealerships every single day. those parts will still have warranty coverage. where do you draw the line at which a dealer must disclose things without being asked?
You did not like it when a jag owner hoodwinked you on a paint job, so why expect a car buyer to not be angry over a transmission and getting a story instead over why the car is on the lot?
Both are the result of questionable ethics and both place others in a negative position.
02-28-07, 01:39 PM
#49
I agree with Bob, jj. There is a big difference between a problematic window switch and a faulty transmission. I'm not sure where you draw the line, but certainly you have to agree that a replaced transmission falls well over the line in terms of what should be disclosed.
02-28-07, 02:20 PM
#50
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jj,
You did not like it when a jag owner hoodwinked you on a paint job, so why expect a car buyer to not be angry over a transmission and getting a story instead over why the car is on the lot?
Both are the result of questionable ethics and both place others in a negative position.
You did not like it when a jag owner hoodwinked you on a paint job, so why expect a car buyer to not be angry over a transmission and getting a story instead over why the car is on the lot?
Both are the result of questionable ethics and both place others in a negative position.
there is a significant difference between a car being totally repainted and disclosure of a warranty part. further, the paintjob in question i asked about specifically and was lied to. if the customer was lied to about a trans replacement, then you have a valid point, however i dont believe that was the case.
i would still like your opinion on where you draw the line,
jeff
Last edited by jjbodean; 02-28-07 at 02:27 PM.
02-28-07, 02:28 PM
#51
I don't think you can categorize the replacement of a transmission as simply a "warranty part." What if the engine was replaced under warranty? Would you feel the same way about that? Clearly, there are certain inconsequential warranty parts that aren't worth mentioning (e.g., window switches and other power accessories), but when you're dealing with a major component of the drivetrain, it must be disclosed. Maybe the law doesn't require it, but sound business practices do.
02-28-07, 02:35 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
jj,
What's in it for me if I give you my sage advice, a SGM/cashmere GS at rock bottom price with a Lexus certified normally operating ES in trade comes to mind?
If I were you here is what I would do, on certified pre-owned I'd make a master copy of the service history after you first black out prior owner info and present it to each and every customer looking at the car ort attach it somewhere in the car for sale so it can be gone over by saleman with customer.
Said another way, full disclosure, just as you hope for when you accept a trade.
As for Cole, he was told a story as to why that car was on the lot, had he known it had a transmission overhaul he'd have bargained better than the great skill he already had at negotiating or he may not have bought the car. You know yourself that was not disclosed to him on purpose, same as that bozo did not tell you that jag had been repainted because you might have bargained better if you knew or you might have passed on the trade.
Both of you upon discovery felt anxiety and anger over the investment upon learning the truth.
Heck even those roadside used car folks are telling people the cars had a trans replaced when hawking them on e-bay and that was a Lexus dealership for goodness sake that Cole got it from.
And that ....only the early cars had transmission problems... is getting old for dealers to pull on folks.
I ran a manufacturing business, believe me full disclosure is stress free by comparison to what others choose to do.
02-28-07, 02:44 PM
#53
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just for the record, i dont disagree with what either of you are saying. i run a full disclosure dealership, however, some do not. there is no obligation under the law to disclose parts replaced, under warranty or otherwise.
however, i do place a certain amount of burden on the buyer to do themselves due dilligence by requesting carfax reports and service histories as well. we are talking about spending a bunch of money, i think buyers would do a little more research before buying a pre-owned vehicle, regardless of the number of miles on it.
however, i do place a certain amount of burden on the buyer to do themselves due dilligence by requesting carfax reports and service histories as well. we are talking about spending a bunch of money, i think buyers would do a little more research before buying a pre-owned vehicle, regardless of the number of miles on it.
02-28-07, 02:48 PM
#54
Lexus Champion
just for the record, i dont disagree with what either of you are saying. i run a full disclosure dealership, however, some do not. there is no obligation under the law to disclose parts replaced, under warranty or otherwise.
however, i do place a certain amount of burden on the buyer to do themselves due dilligence by requesting carfax reports and service histories as well. we are talking about spending a bunch of money, i think buyers would do a little more research before buying a pre-owned vehicle, regardless of the number of miles on it.
however, i do place a certain amount of burden on the buyer to do themselves due dilligence by requesting carfax reports and service histories as well. we are talking about spending a bunch of money, i think buyers would do a little more research before buying a pre-owned vehicle, regardless of the number of miles on it.
02-28-07, 03:24 PM
#55
Here is something of interest - the "buyback" ES350 cars for sale with transmission replacements on ebay motors have a slight disclaimer stating that some titles will have "reacquired vehicle" notation or "buyback" notation (New Jersey for one). So, if you purchase one of these buybacks and decide to trade it on another car in the future, I would say the value of your ES350 will be quite low if the reacquired vehicle or buyback notation is on your title. Esp if you do not disclose it in initial trade negotiations.
02-28-07, 03:27 PM
#56
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Here is something of interest - the "buyback" ES350 cars for sale with transmission replacements on ebay motors have a slight disclaimer stating that some titles will have "reacquired vehicle" notation or "buyback" notation (New Jersey for one). So, if you purchase one of these buybacks and decide to trade it on another car in the future, I would say the value of your ES350 will be quite low if the reacquired vehicle or buyback notation is on your title. Esp if you do not disclose it in initial trade negotiations.
02-28-07, 04:01 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
speaking of vehicle history.........
my car is in the body shop for supposed structural/weld defects on a cosmetically perfect car.
will repairs like this get tacked onto the vehicle history and immediately decrease the value of the car?
my car is in the body shop for supposed structural/weld defects on a cosmetically perfect car.
will repairs like this get tacked onto the vehicle history and immediately decrease the value of the car?
02-28-07, 04:11 PM
#58
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02-28-07, 04:14 PM
#59
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Holy cow,
Wow, I dont even want to think about my car's value being very low in the future. I would pull my hair out if that occurred. I guess in one way I would have to trade it in in a few years to the same dealership, and see if they could tell me to my face its worth $$ less than other cars that age, mileage, etc.
I just want to chime back in and say a few things. I agree I should have pushed the issue further and asked for records - it never dawned on me at the time as I was told they had no information on the car. The VIN number check up issue, service records, etc.- I just didnt think about asking for them and essentially took them at their word. Oh well. a lesson learned I guess.
As far as carfax I did actually pay for the report. Another lesson learned- it disappears off the website in a few days. I didnt print it out. I am stupid on that one I fully agree. However, I do not recall seeing any type of notation regarding buyback, transmission issue, etc. I wonder if it would be worthwhile getting the copy again?
Anyway, if I had a crystal ball I would love to see how my car and transmission will hold up in the future, and if I had a time machine to go back in time I would not be buying this car - at least not without other issues resolved first like upgraded warranty, etc. No, I take that back. I would not buy this car out of principle. As I stands, I do love the car.
Thanks again all. Very good reading and I hope this helps someone else in the future. I know I have learned a good bit about used car purchasing.
Edit: I just read dunnojack's last post. It came up while I was typing the above. That is what the guy said. He said he came back from a regional meeting this week and that was discussed. As far as the official, as high as you can get, Lexus statement, I don't think he was saying that. He implied it was all earlier (first few months) build dates and all of the last few months are flare free.
Wow, I dont even want to think about my car's value being very low in the future. I would pull my hair out if that occurred. I guess in one way I would have to trade it in in a few years to the same dealership, and see if they could tell me to my face its worth $$ less than other cars that age, mileage, etc.
I just want to chime back in and say a few things. I agree I should have pushed the issue further and asked for records - it never dawned on me at the time as I was told they had no information on the car. The VIN number check up issue, service records, etc.- I just didnt think about asking for them and essentially took them at their word. Oh well. a lesson learned I guess.
As far as carfax I did actually pay for the report. Another lesson learned- it disappears off the website in a few days. I didnt print it out. I am stupid on that one I fully agree. However, I do not recall seeing any type of notation regarding buyback, transmission issue, etc. I wonder if it would be worthwhile getting the copy again?
Anyway, if I had a crystal ball I would love to see how my car and transmission will hold up in the future, and if I had a time machine to go back in time I would not be buying this car - at least not without other issues resolved first like upgraded warranty, etc. No, I take that back. I would not buy this car out of principle. As I stands, I do love the car.
Thanks again all. Very good reading and I hope this helps someone else in the future. I know I have learned a good bit about used car purchasing.
Edit: I just read dunnojack's last post. It came up while I was typing the above. That is what the guy said. He said he came back from a regional meeting this week and that was discussed. As far as the official, as high as you can get, Lexus statement, I don't think he was saying that. He implied it was all earlier (first few months) build dates and all of the last few months are flare free.
02-28-07, 04:19 PM
#60
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