toneman

Well if you look at it from a certain point of view--if you don't ask, they won't tell...or disclose. Is it unethical on their part to not disclose even if you don't even ask? Sure...but I believe--and I could be wrong here, so please correct me if I am--they are not doing anything illegal by not disclosing it...especially if you don't bother to ask as to the vehicle's history. OTOH--if you do ask and they flatout tell you that there was nothing done to the tranny and you find out otherwise...that may very well be a different story...but obtaining remedy from them for their lie is no guarantee.

2007es350

I feel bad for you....but you can try to get them to swap another car out for you. However, it sounds like you bought a used car, and I doubt they would give you another car because of this issue.

coleco

Well, it was certainly sold as a used car. The contract clearly says that. So I am not arguing that the car was new - I know it wasnt. All I want to know, and I will after I call them on Monday is know that I know the transmission was already replaced does this change anything. I want to know do I, having bought a used car, now have the platinum warranty or does that only apply to the original owner, and also, if the transmission flare continues will they replace it or no. Although it was a used car, the warranty as far as I am concerned, and per how they explained it is it is essentially a new bumper-bumper warranty less 1100 miles. They need to treat me as the original buyer in that regard, but I suspect they will not agree to the plat. warranty. If they say they will do whatever it takes to fix the flare that would be best. However based on the tech person they could not reproduce it which makes me a little miffed. Im guessing video.
So the issue of they should have told me, that was sneaky, etc. is all valid but for now I am focusing on the what are they gonna do about it. I wish they would step up and tell me I have the plat warranty. That would go a long way for me buying future cars there but we will see how it goes.
thanks again and I will post how the conversation went.

Colecl

e-man

Well, you definitely have the 4 year/50,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty from the date the vehicle was first put in service. No one can take that away from you. So, yes, if you have the trans flare, they have to fix it. I'm not sure if the 100,000 mile platinum warranty is transferrable (in other words, if the original owner got the platinum warranty, I don't know whether that warranty stays with the car for the life of the car or is only valid for the owner it was awarded to). Anyway, if they won't step up and give you the platinum warranty, you can still rely on the original factory warranty, and I'm guessing that they will have this trans flare figured out long before the standard warranty runs out. The only thing I'd be concerned about is whether the current flair is going any long-term damage to the trans that won't rear its ugly head until long after the warranty expires.

jjbodean

i would be willing to bet the car never got the platinum coverage since the original owner traded after the trans replacement. you probably have the remainder of the factory coverage and nothing more.

coleco

yes, thats exactly correct. you all have hit the nail on the head. My concern is that a huge repair bill will occur after the 50K warrenty is up. I already have nearly 12,000 miles on it and so my main concern is getting this figured out before the warranty is over. I guess in a sense I am no different than all other new ES owners- who doesnt want their transmission flare resolved before the warranty expires?. However the fact that they didnt tell me about the transmission issue irks me a little, and i wonder what else they didnt tell me. Again, I will post when I have a chance to talk to them on Monday or so. Actually I did receive a call last pm from the usual "we hope your service went well" person. I thanked her for the call, told her I was on my way out of the door for a dinner reservation, and would call back Monday to talk to any boss that would be willing to do so.

you know its kind of sad but as an aside this is my second major issue with truthful/untruthful issues in 2 years. Last year I purchased an 01 740i BMW from a dealership in Charlotte (I wont mention names but it shares the same name as the Lexus dealership). About 2 months or so after I purchased this preowned car with the extended warranty I received a call from the dealership saying they would come to my house to pick up the car, bring it to their shop and run it through a full check up and fix anything that was wrong. Then, they would bring me the car back the next day. A loaner was provided. They said they lost all of the paper work on my (and 90 other cars) regarding the preowned inspection they did. I found out later on that they were in trouble for falsifying repair bills on numerous cars. I hate to draw blanket, sweeping opinions about the auto dealership industry but I was amazed. It was this exact car that gave me all sorts of problems that I traded in for the ES. I was looking to improve my situation and get piece of mind. My wife thinks I am a fool and need to start looking at cheaper cars - you just wont get a great deal or value from buying used, or too expensive cars I guess. Sheesh.

wanderer99

Coleco - I really feel for you. This is a difficult situation. My vehicle is on its second trans - which is flaring and will have to be replaced again - and I'm still going through the process with Lexus on this. Hopefully they'll be able to duplicate it this week and something will be worked out. If not...

I'll have no choice but to sell the car. I'm not prepared to sell it privately as I don't think I could knowingly sell a car to someone that has a really big problem. If I do become forced to sell, I'll wholesale or trade it. That means that someone else out there is going to end up with this car, which will probably be a Lexus dealer. The cycle will then begin again with someone else taking up ownership - having problems - and going to Lexus only to find out the car had the original TSIB, then the trans replaced. And the trans replacement is bad.

If ever 'buyer beware' applied to a vehicle, this is probably the model. The dealers and wholesale buyers are going to work out what is happening with this model very quickly, if they don't know about it already.

coleco

Well, I did speak to the service manager at the dealership today. He was very nice and polite but I could tell he was not 100% buying what I was saying. Also, when citing this forum as a source for my information, you could tell he was thinking I was nuts. Anyway, again he was nice and we talked for a while. He said he would investigate this further, talk to the higher ups, and call me tomorrow. What I am hoping for is the fully extended plat. warranty that I have been reading about. The service rep was not aware of that. He did let me know that although my warranty is 50K, less what I have now, the transmission and drivetrain is 6 years 70,000 which I was unaware of and I dont believe I have that in writing. I guess that makes me feel better but I am not sure if in reality that means anything. Also, I am wondering how I get that in writing. I will follow up tomorrow or after and let everyone know how the followup conversation went. I did let him know that I thought they should have told me about the transmission before purchase, but he didnt have an answer for that. He also said that for anyone with engine flaring that ultimately required transmission replacement, that car has multiple warning lights and shifting errors. I was not aware of that from reading these forums. I did not know that all the folks with transmission problems had an essentially undriveable car. Therefore I am guessing that is not true. If they offer a better warranty, do I leave it at that and push for a different solution if the flaring becomes worse?? Thats what I have to think about.

LexBob2

Yes, the Basic warranty (bumper to bumper) is 48 months or 50,000 miles. The Powertrain warranty is 72 months or 70,000 miles. This information is in your owner's materials. Probably on the Lexus web site too.

ES350Bob

Cole,

I think one of the most important things for you to do is get complete copies of your vehicle service history.

You really need to find out if it was brought back to service at least once after prior owner had the transmission replaced. And in general need those records.

As to his reaction about forums, pay no attention to that, he won't be the first or last you person come into contact with that will try to downplay the significance of what you review on auto forums and there is motive behind that tactic that is of no benefit to you or others who own an ES350.

coleco

I appreciate that ES350Bob. Thanks for the encouragement. I will push hard to get the vehicle service records for that car in case something happens in the future. Who knows, maybe this will all go away after they call back following there mini investigation but I suspect that they are not happy that I was told about the transmission being replaced. Then again, maybe they don't care. I just dont know. The service manager didnt seem to think that they did anything wrong by not disclosing that. In fact, he seemed to imply my car was better than before given that it had a brand new transmission. (As if the car was 8 years old or something???) Anyway, if this is about getting even because they didnt disclose that to me, I may come up short and cant do a thing legally. However, if I can sweeten the warranty deal with the plat. upgrade, that would be more palatable and would get me on even ground with others with the transmission flare issue. Ill post on what there decision is or at leat what they say on there follow up phone call. Thanks.
Coleco

ES350Bob

Cole,

I wish you the best in this and I also appreciate that you shared the family impact--reaction of wife---not too much is said about the overall impact this issue alone has on an entire family and how disruptive it is to the otherwise status quo.

Just tell her, you realized why you married her, not only is she stunningly beautiful but she has a lot of common sense too and you could use her help or just her support in this and see if that lessens the occasional lecture

As to service records, I'd pick them up this week or weekend and here is why: If you notice where the former owner had brought it back at least once for a trans concern AFTER it was replaced, it puts you in a much stronger position with them as to their offered having checked it over before putting it on their lot and ending up selling it to you. JJbodean can help you there, though likely in Private message if you ask him, he is always helpful on here.

If you meet a roadblock trying to get your history, then just search the net and find another dealer reasonably close, call up service department and ask them about your service history, they will help you as they run a business and want you to trust them and bring your car to them for repairs.

coleco

Wow, I was not expecting what they told me. They left a cell phone message, I was in the office. I haven't called them back yet as I was curious what others thought. I was expecting A) too bad, it was not new and whatever happened before hand is out of our control. you knew it was used. OR B) You have a point, we will extend the warranty and you let us know what it does over the next few months, but again we could not reproduce the flare.

What they said (again, just on the voice mail, I have to call back to discuss further) is "We ordered you a new transmission, it will be here next week or so to be installed. You are correct in bringing this to our attention. Give us a call when you can." Something to this effect. A new transmission? Number 2? What do I make of that? Should I be happy, angry, neutral, etc? Is replacing a 6 month transmission again the correct thing? Does this protect them in the future, or help me out? I am not sure what to think.

Any thoughts at all would be appreciated. This offering was unexpected and I was not necessarily pushing for something this dramatic. I didnt get as far as requesting vehicle service records, and now I wonder if I should more than ever? Yikes, this seems like an odd scenario. I love Lexus and will be loyal forever, but this seems weird.

ES350Bob

Cole,

It is odd you are turned away with a cannot duplicate, though that has been pulled on many, have not brought the car back since, but all of a sudden they are ordering you another transmission.

I'm only guessing, but I think they know for certain your car was brought back by former owner claiming the trans was still hosed up after replacement and nothing was ever done except trade that person out of it leaving the trans as it was until point you bought it.

Since it seems it will be a while before they get a trans in for you, it is really important you find out what went on with that car up to point you bought it and took it in yourself for service even if you have to call 3 dealers to get the total truth about your car. Though right now maybe they will now tell you themselves if you place a call and get any intake service person and ask them to look up your VIN and describe everything that was done and ask to be able to pickup copies. If not, call another dealer not too far away and ask them as I said prior.

I don't think you have enough info just yet to make a determination of exactly how you should feel.

coleco

I realize this thread is fairly dead but wanted to post the conclusion in case anyone searches this in the future. After several weeks of phone tag, I called the dealership yesterday and talked to someone higher up. He was very nice, and I can tell he has had this conversation before. What we decided upon is just for me to watch this longer and see how it goes - I am not going to throw another transmission in now when the flare now seems rather infrequent. I did learn several things from him that I should share:
1. There is no such thing as a global all encompassing platinum warranty. Just because your transmission is replaced does not mean they will necessarily offer this. He said I was misinformed. The big take home message from the conversation was Lexus will do whatever is necessary to make the customer happy, and no two persons and their dealings will be the same. It is a case by case scenario. 2. There are no more transmission flares in the new builds, all of the problem cars were caught before they arrived from Japan. 3. The transmission apparantely has a brain and can change on the fly depending on driving conditions, speed, etc. I confess I could not follow his thinking on this one mostly because I have no idea about cars, transmissions, etc. One thing I did learn that is interesting is you cannot go to the dealership and say the car slips, or flares 5 times a day for 4 weeks. The apparently can hook it up to a computer and confirm how, when, etc. Interesting. 4. There is mostly 100% misinformation out there on the forums mostly from a few disgruntled persons. 5. They were under no obligation legally to tell me my almost new car I bought already had transmission problems/replacement. 6. You get the idea, a spin doctor. Very nice to talk with but in the end I figured nothing really was changed for me. Frustrating. Anyway, my overall feeling is similar to "you will eat your spinach and like it!!"
Thanks all for your input in the past. I tend to view these boards as very very helpful, but as in other instances in the past, the information I learned here is not accepted by the dealerships. It may be in my presentation??