Why Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350
12-13-06, 06:57 PM
#1
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Why Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350
I've noticed an increase in ES350 owners basically giving up in frustration with issues with their cars. I could list a bunch of names, but you can see from the posts who these people are. Unfortunately, I'm one of them. I've done my best to hang in there as long as possible, but I think I'm done now.
I'm a Snr IT Professional who works for a very large financial institution and basically I solve difficult problems for a living. I have a team of people who help me do this. I have to make the seemingly impossible happen - alot - and often deal with vendors who promise the world, but deliver basically nothing. It's my job to pull the pieces together and make everyone happy, and make sure things are reliable and working.
I think Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350 for a few reasons:
- Lexus know what the issues are. Their dealers raise the issues with them. We know that they know what the issues are.
- they simply can't provide working fixes for these issues (wind noise)
- the fixes they do provide don't work (trans TSIB and trans replacement)
- they are not delivering a quality vehicle anymore, compared to previous similar vehicles
- they're often not delivering on their promise (implied or otherwise) of superior customer service
To me this is like a vendor that promises the world, but delivers almost nothing. It happens quite a lot. They trade on their reputation, but their product is crap, and the support just isn't there or worse - its a complete nightmare. To me, this is a lot like the ES350 and what's happening right now.
So to win the customer service war, you have to:
- offer superior service for your sometimes problematic product.
- be able to provide answers to customer questions and complaints in a consistent manner.
- have a plan to work through and deal with issues quickly
- provide real solutions.
- listen to the customer and specifically address their issues to their satisfaction.
- find a way - any way - to bring things to a fast resolution.
Do that and you win. Don't do it and you've got real problems.
I'm probably leaving Lexus because they don't deliver. Time and time again they don't deliver. I keep waiting and waiting for something great to happen, but its all smoke and mirrors.
So I think that Lexus is simply a bad vendor right now. Potentially bad product, even worse support and absolutely no consistency.
If they were doing the above things then everyone would be happy despite the ES350 having some rather seriously annoying issues. People wouldn't be looking to get out, they'd be celebrating their Lexus vehicle and why they're going to stay a Lexus owner. That's not happening - and absolutely nothing is being done to address it. Just my 35c worth
I'm a Snr IT Professional who works for a very large financial institution and basically I solve difficult problems for a living. I have a team of people who help me do this. I have to make the seemingly impossible happen - alot - and often deal with vendors who promise the world, but deliver basically nothing. It's my job to pull the pieces together and make everyone happy, and make sure things are reliable and working.
I think Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350 for a few reasons:
- Lexus know what the issues are. Their dealers raise the issues with them. We know that they know what the issues are.
- they simply can't provide working fixes for these issues (wind noise)
- the fixes they do provide don't work (trans TSIB and trans replacement)
- they are not delivering a quality vehicle anymore, compared to previous similar vehicles
- they're often not delivering on their promise (implied or otherwise) of superior customer service
To me this is like a vendor that promises the world, but delivers almost nothing. It happens quite a lot. They trade on their reputation, but their product is crap, and the support just isn't there or worse - its a complete nightmare. To me, this is a lot like the ES350 and what's happening right now.
So to win the customer service war, you have to:
- offer superior service for your sometimes problematic product.
- be able to provide answers to customer questions and complaints in a consistent manner.
- have a plan to work through and deal with issues quickly
- provide real solutions.
- listen to the customer and specifically address their issues to their satisfaction.
- find a way - any way - to bring things to a fast resolution.
Do that and you win. Don't do it and you've got real problems.
I'm probably leaving Lexus because they don't deliver. Time and time again they don't deliver. I keep waiting and waiting for something great to happen, but its all smoke and mirrors.
So I think that Lexus is simply a bad vendor right now. Potentially bad product, even worse support and absolutely no consistency.
If they were doing the above things then everyone would be happy despite the ES350 having some rather seriously annoying issues. People wouldn't be looking to get out, they'd be celebrating their Lexus vehicle and why they're going to stay a Lexus owner. That's not happening - and absolutely nothing is being done to address it. Just my 35c worth
12-13-06, 07:24 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
If we look at just the number of people being told that wind noise and diesel engine noise is somehow normal, somehow makes sense to be present in a car with a base option sticker price of 36,400 dollars, you see a complete loss of corporate integrity from just those two things, then adding the rest like transmissions and hassle to resolution if any in some cases, just worsens the obvious.
I had said before Lexus is a public company and it takes years to staighten them out when some got elevated to positions within the company they have no business holding. They are otherwise a company capable of near perfection, but not right now or foreseeable future.
Even the CEO of Toyota frets over quality slipping which he saw as his past advantage here in the USA.
I had said before Lexus is a public company and it takes years to staighten them out when some got elevated to positions within the company they have no business holding. They are otherwise a company capable of near perfection, but not right now or foreseeable future.
Even the CEO of Toyota frets over quality slipping which he saw as his past advantage here in the USA.
12-13-06, 08:13 PM
#3
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WTF? closed mid-post?
Like anything today, everything is down to the "bottom line" and using all of your resources available to ensure the bottom line is the best it can be.
Seriously, if these corps can navigate the myriad of tax codes and work these to their advantage, you don't think they know about every lemon law and legal recourse their customers have with them?
I've yet to personally confirm everyone's claim on these boards... I know there's real people behind the screen-names, but how many are haters? Just a thought and I'm not digging on anyone's credibility, cause I have the issue myself.
Since I've been involved, I've noted the following has occurred, in numbered order.
1. What shift flare, what's that?
2. It's the valve body, you need to have it replaced.
3. Had mine done, didn't work... New trans or buyout.
4. To much lost on buyouts, need to change strategy... You need to have the valve body first, then we will replace your transmission.
5. A lot of customer care and responsiveness.
6. Phone calls unreturned, flustered people at the other end when they're on the phone, etc. Mostly saying... "Yeah, of course I've heard about the transmission issue, quit bothering me!"
What I'm getting at and have recently realized myself... Transmission Flare and Oil Sludge are synonomous! If Toyota handles the transmission issue like the oil sludge issue, they save BIG TIME!
Off topic a little...
Wanderer, I love BC! Any prospects for a business/IT fella with a buncha commercial lending experience using AFS and ACBS and a host of custom one-offs? I have about 15 years with some huge names, there was a short break on a Java team building a custom job/billing/payroll/reporting system for a pre-press plant with about 300 employees? Lemme know!
Like anything today, everything is down to the "bottom line" and using all of your resources available to ensure the bottom line is the best it can be.
Seriously, if these corps can navigate the myriad of tax codes and work these to their advantage, you don't think they know about every lemon law and legal recourse their customers have with them?
I've yet to personally confirm everyone's claim on these boards... I know there's real people behind the screen-names, but how many are haters? Just a thought and I'm not digging on anyone's credibility, cause I have the issue myself.
Since I've been involved, I've noted the following has occurred, in numbered order.
1. What shift flare, what's that?
2. It's the valve body, you need to have it replaced.
3. Had mine done, didn't work... New trans or buyout.
4. To much lost on buyouts, need to change strategy... You need to have the valve body first, then we will replace your transmission.
5. A lot of customer care and responsiveness.
6. Phone calls unreturned, flustered people at the other end when they're on the phone, etc. Mostly saying... "Yeah, of course I've heard about the transmission issue, quit bothering me!"
What I'm getting at and have recently realized myself... Transmission Flare and Oil Sludge are synonomous! If Toyota handles the transmission issue like the oil sludge issue, they save BIG TIME!
Off topic a little...
Wanderer, I love BC! Any prospects for a business/IT fella with a buncha commercial lending experience using AFS and ACBS and a host of custom one-offs? I have about 15 years with some huge names, there was a short break on a Java team building a custom job/billing/payroll/reporting system for a pre-press plant with about 300 employees? Lemme know!
12-13-06, 08:16 PM
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I was going to post on this thread.... https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=254023 but it is now closed so I'll post here.
Sorry Wanderer.... it sounds like Lexus customer service is horrible. You may think it is a Canadian thing, but rest assured, here in the US it is the same as well.
It is very sad that the ES350 could have been a great car if it was without the transmission problem, the failed TSIB, and no "real" fix in sight. I'm a first time Lexus owner and this Lexus will be my last one.
Sorry Wanderer.... it sounds like Lexus customer service is horrible. You may think it is a Canadian thing, but rest assured, here in the US it is the same as well.
It is very sad that the ES350 could have been a great car if it was without the transmission problem, the failed TSIB, and no "real" fix in sight. I'm a first time Lexus owner and this Lexus will be my last one.
12-13-06, 09:34 PM
#5
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I was going to post on this thread.... https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=254023 but it is now closed so I'll post here.
Sorry Wanderer.... it sounds like Lexus customer service is horrible. You may think it is a Canadian thing, but rest assured, here in the US it is the same as well.
It is very sad that the ES350 could have been a great car if it was without the transmission problem, the failed TSIB, and no "real" fix in sight. I'm a first time Lexus owner and this Lexus will be my last one.
Sorry Wanderer.... it sounds like Lexus customer service is horrible. You may think it is a Canadian thing, but rest assured, here in the US it is the same as well.
It is very sad that the ES350 could have been a great car if it was without the transmission problem, the failed TSIB, and no "real" fix in sight. I'm a first time Lexus owner and this Lexus will be my last one.
We've re-shuffled posts back into this one where appropriate
12-14-06, 12:44 AM
#6
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Hi Wanderer,
Well after reading this thread just now and after writing my most recent reply in the thread I started yesterday you and Bob have now officially won me over to the ES350. You've convinced me that its just not worth taking the chance on and that Lexus is not doing their job on the car.
I've now decided to switch to the GS. Do you see any reason to not go into a used 2006 (obviously depending on mileage, wear and tear, and so on?) Were there any crazy TSIB's on that model year? I wonder what the 2007 added...
Well I'm definitely not looking forward to spending more money, but I'm certainly looking forward to getting a better vehicle.
Thanks a lot for helping me wise up.
Matthew
Well after reading this thread just now and after writing my most recent reply in the thread I started yesterday you and Bob have now officially won me over to the ES350. You've convinced me that its just not worth taking the chance on and that Lexus is not doing their job on the car.
I've now decided to switch to the GS. Do you see any reason to not go into a used 2006 (obviously depending on mileage, wear and tear, and so on?) Were there any crazy TSIB's on that model year? I wonder what the 2007 added...
Well I'm definitely not looking forward to spending more money, but I'm certainly looking forward to getting a better vehicle.
Thanks a lot for helping me wise up.
Matthew
12-14-06, 04:26 AM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Here (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...350+difference) all you have to know about the differences between '06 GS300 and '07 GS350. VERY detailed report...
Trending Topics
12-18-06, 06:41 PM
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Every company throughout history that has had success has also had failure.
I remember when IBM was the king of the computer world. They got too big and politics and bureaucracy overcame the company. Sure enough, Microsoft stole the PC O/S away from them.
Now Microsoft is so big they cannot make a secure operating system to save their lives.
As Toyota aims to become the number one automobile manufacturer, they will hit the wall just like GM did. You cannot maintain quality and quantity long term. When there is a mistake in quality, in ripples through hundreds of thousands of cars. Even if they fix the cars, it still costs them money.
I believe in order to be the best, you cannot be the largest. Every employee you hire increases the complexity of training and ensuring consistent quality.
The reason why the iPOD does so well, and the MacIntosh is a great computer is because Apple is a small company.
Toyota will no doubt become number one in sales, but there will be a hefty cost for the success.
I remember when IBM was the king of the computer world. They got too big and politics and bureaucracy overcame the company. Sure enough, Microsoft stole the PC O/S away from them.
Now Microsoft is so big they cannot make a secure operating system to save their lives.
As Toyota aims to become the number one automobile manufacturer, they will hit the wall just like GM did. You cannot maintain quality and quantity long term. When there is a mistake in quality, in ripples through hundreds of thousands of cars. Even if they fix the cars, it still costs them money.
I believe in order to be the best, you cannot be the largest. Every employee you hire increases the complexity of training and ensuring consistent quality.
The reason why the iPOD does so well, and the MacIntosh is a great computer is because Apple is a small company.
Toyota will no doubt become number one in sales, but there will be a hefty cost for the success.
12-19-06, 09:44 AM
#9
I've noticed an increase in ES350 owners basically giving up in frustration with issues with their cars. I could list a bunch of names, but you can see from the posts who these people are. Unfortunately, I'm one of them. I've done my best to hang in there as long as possible, but I think I'm done now.
I'm a Snr IT Professional who works for a very large financial institution and basically I solve difficult problems for a living. I have a team of people who help me do this. I have to make the seemingly impossible happen - alot - and often deal with vendors who promise the world, but deliver basically nothing. It's my job to pull the pieces together and make everyone happy, and make sure things are reliable and working.
I think Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350 for a few reasons:
- Lexus know what the issues are. Their dealers raise the issues with them. We know that they know what the issues are.
- they simply can't provide working fixes for these issues (wind noise)
- the fixes they do provide don't work (trans TSIB and trans replacement)
- they are not delivering a quality vehicle anymore, compared to previous similar vehicles
- they're often not delivering on their promise (implied or otherwise) of superior customer service
To me this is like a vendor that promises the world, but delivers almost nothing. It happens quite a lot. They trade on their reputation, but their product is crap, and the support just isn't there or worse - its a complete nightmare. To me, this is a lot like the ES350 and what's happening right now.
So to win the customer service war, you have to:
- offer superior service for your sometimes problematic product.
- be able to provide answers to customer questions and complaints in a consistent manner.
- have a plan to work through and deal with issues quickly
- provide real solutions.
- listen to the customer and specifically address their issues to their satisfaction.
- find a way - any way - to bring things to a fast resolution.
Do that and you win. Don't do it and you've got real problems.
I'm probably leaving Lexus because they don't deliver. Time and time again they don't deliver. I keep waiting and waiting for something great to happen, but its all smoke and mirrors.
So I think that Lexus is simply a bad vendor right now. Potentially bad product, even worse support and absolutely no consistency.
If they were doing the above things then everyone would be happy despite the ES350 having some rather seriously annoying issues. People wouldn't be looking to get out, they'd be celebrating their Lexus vehicle and why they're going to stay a Lexus owner. That's not happening - and absolutely nothing is being done to address it. Just my 35c worth
I'm a Snr IT Professional who works for a very large financial institution and basically I solve difficult problems for a living. I have a team of people who help me do this. I have to make the seemingly impossible happen - alot - and often deal with vendors who promise the world, but deliver basically nothing. It's my job to pull the pieces together and make everyone happy, and make sure things are reliable and working.
I think Lexus is losing the customer service war on the ES350 for a few reasons:
- Lexus know what the issues are. Their dealers raise the issues with them. We know that they know what the issues are.
- they simply can't provide working fixes for these issues (wind noise)
- the fixes they do provide don't work (trans TSIB and trans replacement)
- they are not delivering a quality vehicle anymore, compared to previous similar vehicles
- they're often not delivering on their promise (implied or otherwise) of superior customer service
To me this is like a vendor that promises the world, but delivers almost nothing. It happens quite a lot. They trade on their reputation, but their product is crap, and the support just isn't there or worse - its a complete nightmare. To me, this is a lot like the ES350 and what's happening right now.
So to win the customer service war, you have to:
- offer superior service for your sometimes problematic product.
- be able to provide answers to customer questions and complaints in a consistent manner.
- have a plan to work through and deal with issues quickly
- provide real solutions.
- listen to the customer and specifically address their issues to their satisfaction.
- find a way - any way - to bring things to a fast resolution.
Do that and you win. Don't do it and you've got real problems.
I'm probably leaving Lexus because they don't deliver. Time and time again they don't deliver. I keep waiting and waiting for something great to happen, but its all smoke and mirrors.
So I think that Lexus is simply a bad vendor right now. Potentially bad product, even worse support and absolutely no consistency.
If they were doing the above things then everyone would be happy despite the ES350 having some rather seriously annoying issues. People wouldn't be looking to get out, they'd be celebrating their Lexus vehicle and why they're going to stay a Lexus owner. That's not happening - and absolutely nothing is being done to address it. Just my 35c worth
Toyota rushed the Camry (and probably the ES too) so that they could get a head start on the Altima that's arriving in showrooms now. Was it really necessary? Well, seeing the number of Camrys on the road, maybe. But they knew they were dealing with a new transmission and new engine. The engine survived, the transmission did not.
12-25-06, 03:45 PM
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IS350 brake clunk noise problem
I and several other IS350 owners have developed a brake clunk noise caused by the pads after they get approximately 10000 on them. Both the dealer and Lexus customer service state the issue is a normal characteristic of the car. Wonderful, I have people driving 3 year old Hyundais and Kias staring at my car after it makes this clunk everytime I pull out of a parking space. Based on this and some other issues I have had with the car, I am not impressed. 
I am praying for JD Power to send me some surveys.
I am praying for JD Power to send me some surveys.
12-25-06, 04:51 PM
#11
Driver School Candidate
Although the ES has some issues I saw over on the GS forum that the 07 has its own issues, creaking, wind noise and an aparent issue with the upper and lower control arms to name a few, but there seems to be a few over there also...whats the deal?
http://sr1.clublexus.com/forums/poll...ts&pollid=2269
Thing is there are a lot more ES's sold than GS's
Again my ES with a 10/06 build date has none of these issues...so far.
http://sr1.clublexus.com/forums/poll...ts&pollid=2269
Thing is there are a lot more ES's sold than GS's
Again my ES with a 10/06 build date has none of these issues...so far.
12-26-06, 12:41 PM
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What I don't understand is why Lexus keeps scoring so high on the JD Power surveys. Either people are not turning in their surveys or Lexus is paying someone off. Their quality is definately not what it used to be. Once word gets out that their quality has slipped and the car rags get the info, then they will probably take a round turn on the issues everyone is having. Until then, we will most likely suffer the consequences of dealing with unreceptive service and wasted calls to their customer satisfaction call centers.
12-26-06, 12:47 PM
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What I don't understand is why Lexus keeps scoring so high on the JD Power surveys. Either people are not turning in their surveys or Lexus is paying someone off. Their quality is definately not what it used to be. Once word gets out that their quality has slipped and the car rags get the info, then they will probably take a round turn on the issues everyone is having. Until then, we will most likely suffer the consequences of dealing with unreceptive service and wasted calls to their customer satisfaction call centers.
Also, the majority of car owners do not send in surveys. Consumer Reports and JD get a tiny fraction of surveys compared to car sales. This is why the surveys do not have much of a spread. The difference in quality between the top brands is marginal.
12-26-06, 01:03 PM
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You should check out this discussion on the LS460 forum.....
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=255666
They mention the ES350 problems and how Lexus is dealing with the issues.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=255666
They mention the ES350 problems and how Lexus is dealing with the issues.
12-26-06, 01:27 PM
#15
Lexus Champion
You should check out this discussion on the LS460 forum.....
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=255666
They mention the ES350 problems and how Lexus is dealing with the issues.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=255666
They mention the ES350 problems and how Lexus is dealing with the issues.
That was very thoughtful and considerate of rjm to visit and to think of us here. Wait till they see how an actual Toyota person addresses by posting responses to a 4th time Lexus buyer on here and was as bad on here during my former car when I was going through that nightmare. Sadly, that is how several I dealt with behaved toward customers and why some dealers get the idea it is ok to do it to customer as well.
Thankfully my 2nd dealer has never done anything but treat me with the utmost of courtesy and will with this 2nd ES350. They are the only reason my former car was replaced, they are so kind and considerate.