2thfixr

I took my GS in for it's first service today. 4800 miles in 8 weeks! Anyways, my first Lexus service visit was damn near perfect. They were courteous, had coffee/donuts/water in the waiting room with newspapers and had the car finished for me in about 30-40 minutes. Tires rotated, oil changed, and car washed. When I was asked if there were any problems that I would like to mention, I am pleased to say that I gave them a very definite, "No." The car has been damn near perfect as well.

While I was sitting there drinking my coffee, I glanced over and saw a thick black book about, "The Lexus Story". It basically gave the complete history of Lexus and included all of the inside info regarding how Lexus started.

The main things I would like to point out here is that the intent was to produce a car that would exceed all expectations. Lexus would represent the perfect customer service experience and make cars that would not only be trouble free but would age gracefully. They set out to go head to head with Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar because they felt they could build a better more reliable car that was "right from the start". In fact, the first Lexus dealership in the US, Tustin Lexus which is also the dealership where I bought my ES350 and GS350, still uses "Right From the Start" on their new car license plate fillers.

The engineers obsessed about noise and vibration isolation. They went so far as to redesign the driveshaft in the original LS400 with higher tensile strength steel because there was a barely audible sound coming from the earlier driveshaft design. There were tons of examples of how Lexus engineers went above and beyond to make the car perfect.

Despite all of that, they had a problem with one cruise control component and a 3rd brake light that melted under certain hot weather and heavy traffic conditions. They immediately issued a recall for all LS400s sold because they felt it was best to handle things in a honest and expeditious manner. They cited that their reasoning was due to the Audi unintended accelration fiasco. In their opinion, Audi's demise was the fact that they did not take customer complaints seriously, they shifted the blame to customers and denied that there was anything wrong. Lexus said that they wanted to act in good faith and repair all cars even though not all cars had problems. To show that they cared about their customer and demonstrate that quality was their primary concern.

Fast forward to today. Reading this forum, I see a bunch of posts about disappointing service visits where customer complaints are not recognized. Almost like the car does not have a problem until "they" witness it first hand and the owner must be imagining things. Transmission problems are being dealt with on a case by case basis rather than a blanket tranny replacement or at least a blanket warranty extension for all owners of potentially affected vehicles. Poorly aligned doors are being adjusted only when it's brought to their attention rather than sending out a letter asking if owners of affected vehicles would kindly bring their vehicles in for visual inspection. Even my GS has a loud ticking sound @ idle due to the direct injection. The original LS400 engineers would obsess over little things and allow something blatant like that? I think not. Etc etc. It seems to me that on the outside, Lexus is trying to do the pleasant service experience thing but it's all smoke and mirrors. They have become just like Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar. In other words, they have become the very same people that they originally tried to save us from.

I realize that it doesn't make much sense to slam Lexus despite my "near perfect" service visit, but reading that book and thinking about some of the posts that I have read on this forum really made me think. It didn't help that I had to spend an hour in my 40 degree garage reseating my ES350 window gaskets to eliminate wind noise. It also doesn't help that I have to take my ES350 out every month or so to check for shift flare. I can only wonder, do I really need to do this? Shouldn't Lexus do something to give me peace of mind? I seriously think that all of these well documented tranny issues are grounds for a future class action lawsuit for a warranty extension for all ES350 owners. Maybe there is a potential diminished value claim to be made as well.

Kaius88

Basically, corporate strategies have changed over time. Cost-cutting is a major aspect of operations due to intense competition and rising cost of material and labor. Their main objective is to make money.... Pleasing customers is but one of many ways to accomplish their objectives. Because of brand recognition, they don't have to work as hard as before to have us buy their products. Sucks I know.

LexBob2

Excellent point. Plus, regular use of the internet by consumers has increased big time since Lexus launched their 1st cars. Forums like this and others didn't exist to this degree, so if there were issues with the initial LS or any other model/brand, knowledge and communication of them wouldn't be so widespread.

BillP

Some pretty insightful comments. When I picked up my ES-350 after having it looked at for a drifting to the left and door alignment/wind noise problems the technician's comment was the car wasn’t out of alignment much and he didn't hear any wind noise, although he admitted he didn't test drive the car before adjusting the door. To a certain degree it seemed the service dept was telling me I was whining about petty things. I think the more appropriate response should have been, “the car shouldn’t have left the factory like this” or “these issues should have been found on a pre-delivery inspection.” Not quite what I expected from Lexus when my car has less than 1000 miles.

Not to hi-jack the thread but 2thfixr (Robert) can you explain the process for reseating the window gaskets?
Thanks,
Bill

2thfixr

It's pretty simple. There is a rubber gasket where the window contacts the door frame. It looks like moulding and doesn't look large but once you pull it out, you quickly realize that it's one big mother of a gasket. Just grab part of it with your fingers and pull. The only thing holding it in is the pressure it exerts in the channel from compressing. There are no clips or anything to deal with. The only area you need to be concerned with is the front triangle by the mirror. I did not pull the entire thing out. I started just above the bottom of the gasket and pulled it out a little past the curve in the door. Then you gently seat it and close the window on the gasket.

I believe if you take it in, they do the same thing but may shim it some way. I tried to shim it but I found that it made the problem worse.

Another issue to consider is that there are plugs under the car that are missing in some cases. The missing plugs cause wind noise in the door regardless of gasket positioning. ES350Bob would be the one to contact about plug info.

ES350Bob

As to resetting the gaskets, with window down I'd do what 2th posted which is roughly left hand edge and arc of window gasket when facing the driver door, but I'd also pull out/down the entire top of window area and right edge as well and only allow the window going back up to reset it back up in the channel. Do for all 4 windows. It will minimize the wind noise but not eliminate it completely.

2thfixr

Now that I think about it, it's amazing to me that the wind noise is even an issue. Even before re-seating the window gasket, the window sealed up very tightly and put quite a bit of compression on the gasket. I am not so sure that it is a leak because if you look at the front triangle, it appears that the gasket is slightly deformed because of the compression from the window. It is not completely flush with the window. When I shimmed the gasket, it only made the compression effect greater and made that little area stick out a tiny bit more. As a result, the wind noise was worse. Whatever the case may be, I'm just glad that I don't have to drive the car everyday.

ES350Bob

It is a combination of things or there would have been no minimization of wind noise resetting those on my car, yet there is still a level of it present.
You had fussed with left edge facing driver door, try pulling out/down that and top and right side and just let the (very slowly) moving up window glass seat the entire gasket.

Wanderer could chime in, as he taped off areas of the window and he got blissful silence. Maybe he will tell us exactly what he did and from that something else could be figured.

spwolf

You are comparing LS to ES, quite large difference there. Every car is built to price - and yes, it has to be perfect, but level of perfection is different between 35k and 70k car.

However, if you are handled nicely and your own experience has been pretty positive, I find it mind boggling that you would get upset on other people's bad service experiences.

Your Lexus dealer can not do anything if somone else treated their customer bad. There are good dealers, there are bad dealers.

Differences between MB and Lexus is that you are so obsessed with wind noise while MB customers dont like their cars shutting off in the middle of the road. So I wouldnt claim they are the same.

I get lots of MB customers that buy Toyotas because apsolutly horrible experiences with S and E classes that they simply cant ignore anymore.

On the other hand, I cant say that anyone walked out of our dealership with the sense that Toyota let them down.
This is why most people buy Toyota again (highest customer loyalty).

We also have competing brand store as well, and differences are night and day... While with Toyota, 90% of trainings are about after-sales services and how to keep customers happy, competing brand has 1/10 of the trainings and mostly for new car sales.

We have worked with 3 manufactures total while I have been around, and difference in customer care is astonishing.

wanderer99

First up - thanks 2thfixr for this perspective. What you read is kind of what I thought. It still gives the marketing slogan "The Pursuit of Perfection" some real basis and meaning. Showing how Lexus really stepped up previously and was dedicated to customer satisfaction is something I expected now.

Spwolf really nails it with the observation of "letting the customer down" and how it doesn't happen at his\her dealership. A happy and satisfied customer does indeed return. Buying a Lexus is an emotional decision for many purchasers, myself included.

So for those of us with problems:
Are we happy Lexus customers?
Is Lexus standing up and making us satisfied?
Are Lexus doing their absolute best to fix our issues, first time?
Are Lexus doing their best to come up with fixes to identified issues?
Are dealerships taking customers at their word and offering immediate repairs?

This is really all about customer service - making the customer happy. Not letting the customer down. Ensuring the customer has confidence in you brand and product. If there are problems, then inconvenience the customer as much as possible as still meet or exceed their expectations to keep them happy. To me, this is what I expected from Lexus.

I was a potential LS purchaser - it was my plan to do so in 2-3 yrs. The ES was the trial to see if the reputation of Lexus was correct. I was a believer, and I paid for my ES willingly to get the care and satisfaction I wanted.

2thfixr

The monetary difference should be irrelevant. Lexus does not state "The relentless pursuit of perfection." with a disclaimer stating that it does not apply to the ES. You are talking MSRP, I am talking about the mission statement behind the brand Lexus.

Please re-read the post and look at my sig. I own an ES350 with wind noise issues AND a GS350.

I agree 100% but the point I tried to make is that Lexus set out to save us from the "bad dealers" (Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar) and became a "bad dealer" theselves by dismissing customer complaints.

Interesting observation but I happen to own 2 MB vehicles as well and can say without a doubt that wind noise in those 2 cars would make me more upset than wind noise in the ES350 ever will. I don't think you understand the wind noise issue. It's not the sound of wind rushing over the car and making noise. It's the sound of wind actually getting through the door. Imagine having a window cracked open just enough to make noise.

Agreed, the S class is a terrible car with lots of electrical gremlins. The only time I drive my wife's car is to fill it up, wash it, and take it in for repairs. Oddly enough, she loves her car.

Funny you should mention that. I use my GS for commuting to/from one of my offices out of town 2 hours away. I have had 3 Toyotas before buying this GS and loved every one of them except for the last one. 2004 Camry SE 4cyl, 2005 Solara SLE V6, and 2005 Sienna XLE Limited. Yes, 3 cars in 3 years. Anyways, the Sienna was in for a month because there was a problem with the air conditioner, it would cycle between arctic frost and warm tropical breeze every 30 seconds. The dealership and Toyota corp said that there was a definite problem with the car but could not repair it. Believe me, they tried everything. I was impressed with the efforts to repair the car but in the end, they could not fix it. After 30 days in the shop, I gave up. I was not interested in pursuing a buyback so I called my service rep and told them to get the car ready for me to pick up and wash it because I was trading it in for a new car in the morning. I am thankful that all of that took place because I now have my GS but it was a PITA at the time.

Basically, the purpose of my post is just to state an opinion based on "The Lexus Story". I can live with the wind noise issue, it's really not that big of a deal. I can live with other Lexus owners getting the shaft from "bad dealers". What I can't understand is how a company can deviate so much from it's founding principles. Sure times have changed and making money is the goal, but this stuff is not what I would expect from Lexus. I wouldn't even expect this kind of stuff from Toyota.

2thfixr

I just had to post this. I re-read this part and had to laugh. If I had a car that was always washed, filled up, picked up for service/maintenance visits, included my choice of a clean GS350/GL450/997S loaner, and then returned to me. I would love it as well.

ES350Bob

I knew something was wrong, had changed/deviated since buying my first of 4 Lexus, when I was given bizarre explantions for diesel engine noise and wind noise rather than them being repaired; dumbfounded, within days I found this website. And saw far more than I had issue with these things though oddly some like to focus on me, including hissy fits posted over the posting of reality.

Celibon's original poll says it all when you look at the date he created it and still no TSIB for wind noise or the diesel engine noise let alone a permanent transmission fix.

I arrived here early August, people had been posting complaints on these various issues for months before I arrived only I arrived having just been sternly and rudely told the very issues seen complained about on here were supposedly NORMAL for an ES350.

In a public company, it takes a lot longer to correct bad business practices than in a privately held one. Deceiving customers or excuse making rather than resolutions is an indication of serious problems and it will be some time, years I suspect, before things are completely sorted out. 4 or 5 plus months is too long to not react to just the volume of wind noise complaints, or just the volume of diesel engine noise complaints, the transmissions are a whole other story.

garsarno

In my last service call, the dealer washed my car, vacuumed the inside etc before my pickup, which is a very nice touch. But - I had to run their loaner RX350 through a full service car wash as the inside was dirty (windows cloudy, dashboard dirty). Not complaining, after all, it was a free loaner with 6500 miles on it.

wanderer99

Bob - is this really your fourth Lexus vehicle? When did you first become a customer?