wanderer99

Why the move? Have you thought about an LS?

e-man

I love the GS. I'm on my second one, and, for the time being, I really can't see driving anything else. At some point, though, comfort and quiet takes precedent to performance and handling, and I'm getting pretty close to that point in my life. And actually, it's funny you should mention it, but I have considered the LS, and that's my first choice for my next car. I'll have to wait for the 04+ models to come down in price before I take a serious look, and then the question will be whether I want to buy used (in which case I would opt for an 04+ LS) or new (in which case I would look very closely at an 08+ ES).

ES350Bob

e-man.

Are we sure the 4 larger plugs should be put in as the two smaller plugs near front wheels?

Also on the LS, I don't blame you for wanting one. They cold started one on the showroom floor the other day for a lady to drive when I was picking up my new-new car. I was within 15 feet of it...VERY QUIET CAR...and sharp looking too. Stay away from dealer if you are not ready for an 07, you WILL want one for sure...LOL

e-man

Bob -- I just sent you a PM with most of this information, but I'll post it here too for the benefit of everyone else.

Here's what I know (and all I know is what Lexus told me, which, as you know all too well, is not always good information). First, I know nothing about the larger plugs. My car doesn't have those holes (at least I don't think it does, but I'll check later). The only holes I've ever noticed are the smaller ones. As it was explained to me, those holes are there to guide the car along on the assembly line. Apparently, there are posts that stick up into the holes during production, and the car is pulled slowly down the line with these posts. When the car is mostly assembled, it is lifted off the posts and the finishing touches are made. It is at this time that the holes are plugged (from the bottom of the car, of course, because the chassis is welded to the frame at this point). It sounds like the smaller plugs on your new car are in the correct way. There is no way they could be installed from the inside out, so the logical way would be to install them from the outside in. If you folded the plug in half and inserted it all the way into the hole from the bottom, and then somehow pulled it back through, I suppose you could get it installed that way, but why would someone want to do that? Also, how on earth could you get any leverage to get the plug to fit snugly? Anyway, that's where I come out on the smaller plugs.

As for the larger plugs, I'll check underneath my car, but my guess there is that yours are installed correctly (from the inside out). I'm not sure what the purpose of those holes is, but if all of the larger plugs are installed "upside down", it seems to me that those plugs went in prior to the time that the chassis was welded on the frame. My guess is that on those cars where the smaller plugs have fallen out and have been replaced by Lexus, the Lexus tech took a look at the larger plugs and mistakenly decided to install the the smaller plugs in the same manner.

Anyway, the long and short, leave the large plugs the way they are -- they are probably in correctly. As for the smaller plugs, yours are also in correctly -- they have to be installed from the bottom up.

CLIFF4781

I have a 2007 es350 ul. The wind noise is there as most describe. I have noticed that depending on road surface the noise is very variable from quiet to noisy. I have Michelin tires. I am curious as to what tires are on the other complainers. Could this be a Michelin problem?

ES350Bob

Cliff,

With my former ES350 I was trying to figure source of wind noise and in doing that focused on the rubber plugs mentioned several times in this thread. I removed one of the larger plugs and noticed road, road/tire noise was enhanced without the one plug.

Review this thread completely for info on these plugs, but short version, there are 4 each side, 2 smaller together and right near front tires and then 2 larger each side roughly 6 inches in from outside edge of frame sort of middle of each door.

If any one of those is missing or loose or pushed in too far you will no doubt notice more road noise than otherwise as that was the first thing I noticed when I removed one of the larger plugs on driver's side.

Also door misalignment that throws off window chrome alignment (see subject titled window issue) IMO is likely involved in allowing road noise and wind noise to enter car.

I don't think it is the tires unless they are over inflated.

OAKPLANK

I have not received my ES350 yet. However, I mentiond the noise issue and plug remedy to my dealer. He says the plugs are delivered in the glove box and part of the delivery prep by the dealer. He also tells me that they are installed from the interior of the car. If there are inside and outside plugs, is it possible that people with wind noise that have all of the outside plugs properly installed should be looking to see if the inside plugs are installed correctly. I seem to remember someone saying they had found a bag in the trunk that had plugs in it. Those plugscertainly didn't get installed at prep time.
Oakplank

brio

I have all the plugs and the wind noise is still unacceptable. I believe this is a design flaw and not a manufacturing flaw. I have a loaner ES350 this weekend to see if I like this one better. The motor sounds more like a sewing machine than mine does, the idle is shakier and noiser than mine and I am about to test for wind noise this afternoon. If a quiet car is important to you, you may be better off with another make or a top-of-the-line Lexus. What I don't understand is all the people who say they don't have a noise problem. Are they deaf, or don't care, or their car is really better than mine. Lexus is not quick to acknowledge they have a problem, but I have been told that they are working to try and improve on the wind buffeting and start-up clatter problems. You may hear this from a dealer but Lexus HO will not publically acknowledge a problem. I am very happy with my dealer and believe thay are trying to make me a happy customer, but there is only so much they can do.

ES350Bob

Oak...,

Can you find out where the interior placed plugs go? You may be onto something where there are supposedly interior plugs. I only knew about body underside plugs thanks to e-man and others.

e-man

In order for the dealer to install the plugs from the inside of the car, they would need to pull up the interior carpeting to gain access to the sheet metal on the bottom of the car. I can't imagine they would want to do this on a brand new car.

It seems to me there's an easy way to figure this one out. Someone needs to look under a car that just arrived to a dealership off the truck and hasn't been prepped yet (i.e., maybe one that still has all of the white adhesive stuff on it) to see whether the plugs are already in place. I believe the smaller plugs could be dealer-installed from the underside of the car as part of the prep process, but I can't believe that the dealer would tear up the interior to install the larger plugs.

ES350Bob

e-man,

The larger 4 plugs could easily be installed right side up or upside down from underside of car, they are that flexible. I agree no reason to lift carpet for the 4 larger ones but on my car I believe they are in upside down, you have to go see an ES350 yourself to see how WELL they fit and snug they are when put in the opposite way to that they all seem to be done.

Oak may find out there are actually other plugs placed in the interior of the car that don't involve the larger ones.

Oak might ask if there are 4 each side required for dealer to put in, and if so, for some reason they like to put the 4 larger ones in upside down and the 2 smaller in right side up.

ES350Bob

brio...

Check door alignment too, go to the thread titled... window issues... and you'll see door alignment off, this seems like it would allow sound and wind noise intrusion.

And they sure do know all about the wind noise and they also know about these engines with either singer sewing machine volume knocking tapping or worse the cannery works level as opposed to properly done and neither level of noise.

OAKPLANK

I spoke to my dealer today about those plugs. He went directly to the service manager. He confirmed that the plugs are actually install from the outside, not from the inside as I was told. He also confirmed that they are, in fact, the same plugs that we are all talking about. Also, they are shipped with the car not installed. They must be installed by the dealer prior to delivery.
Sorry for originally giving incorrect information.
Oakplank

ES350Bob

Oak,

No problem on the other info I'm just glad you asked.

I cannot figure out why the two larger ones each side are put in upside down, it makes no sense, yet even my second car has them put that way.

If you have opportunity maybe you can be the once and for all authority on this from your dealer.

There are 2 smaller ones near front tires each side and 2 larger ones each side sort of middle each door each side of car.

Smaller ones are put in where writing on gasket is up inside hole and for some reason the larger ones are put in with writing facing down to driveway. Yet they fit snug if you take one out and turn it over and put it in the way the smaller ones are done. the flange on them even snugs into recess of stamped metal. Yet, as I said, for some reason they go out of their way to put them in upside down.

If you have the patience show them this if you can copy it to paper and see if they can explain this.

OAKPLANK

I'm curious about what I'm seeing on page 336, chapter 5.1, Essential information if your vehicle needs to be towed....using a flat truck.

The graphic shows where to hook the tie-down chains on the underside. The holes look very familiar to those holes that are supposed to have the famous plugs in them.

Since my car hasn't arrived yet, I can't look under it. What do you guys think?