LexusPia

My wife drives a 1994 ES300 with only 62k miles and garaged always since new. The last couple of weeks when the weather has cooled down to the high 40s or low 50s, the car seems to have problem starting. When the ignition key is turned in the morning when she's ready to go to work, it just clicks. The Diehard battery is only 1 year old and seems to offer plenty of juice. After about 7 or 8 "clicks", it finally starts the engine. At the end of the work day, she has the same problem over again. However, there's no problem starting the car when the engine is warm. Does this sound like a starter solenoid "sticking" problem due to the colder temperature? Anyone experienced the same with their ES300? Thanks.

mtsao

Hi. It does sound like a starter problem. It seems you've already ruled out the battery being the culprit. I would check one more thing though before settling on the starter. Check the connections at the battery terminals/posts. It's possible they are loose/corroded or otherwise not maintaining good conductivity. One way to check is to see if all the electrical accessories (headlight, radio, etc) all come on properly when the key is in the ACC position (one step back from starting). If they do, it would rule out a bad connection and would point to the starter. Actually, it's not really that the solenoid is sticking, rather, when it does stick, it's not making a solid enough contact to conduct voltage. In a properly working starter motor, the only reason you don't hear the 'click' is because it's drowned out by the cranking of the starter and the engine.

Mike

LexusPia

It was indeed a starter problem and a local independent shop fixed it with a rebuilt starter for $259 whereas if Lexus had done the job, it would've cost me around $500+. The mechanic did say he came across several ES of about the same or similar vintage with the same problem. He was surprised that our starter failed with so few miles particularly when the ES (or Camry) was supposedly a quality and reliable brand.

mtsao

Glad to hear you got it taken car of with minimum fuss and money. I can't comment from personal experience with regards to the starters of Camrys or ESs, but I do have a colleague whose late 90s Avalon went bad with the starter...and I've also read of others on CL who've had starter issues. My immediate and extended family have had numerous cars over the last dozen years (all Toyotas and Hondas), and it seems starters and alternators are not an uncommon problem. If you ask me though, all in all, I can't really complain about starters and alternators and the like when many domestics have much more serious (and costlier) issues such as transmissions, peeling paint, etc. You know what I mean? We're so demanding, aren't we? Always wanting more and better.

Mike

Toysrme

You got screwed. I put in a new starter/solenoid unit for $100 + the cost of a 14mm socket a month or two ago...



Here's my only comment on Toyota starters. They suck in general from '93... I had a Corolla one go bad along with this ES's. As I've said elsewhere... Honda's have mufflers that constantly rust out if left in the rain... Apparantly Toyota can't make a solednoid worth a damn.

LexusPia

Toysrme, don't forget your own labor is money too. Anyone can save money by doing it himself if he has the tools, knowhow and time. Our mechanic actually got the rebuilt starter from the local Lexus dealer and it is an OEM Nippon Denso starter. Don't think you can find a rebuilt Denso for $100. I searched on the net and the rebuilt Denso was priced from $170 to $217 plus shipping and so what he charged me was very reasonable and besides the Lexus dealer was the only one in town that had the rebuilt starter in stock (the Lexus parts counter told him they stock this item because quite a few Lexus have had starter failures). Our mechanic did offer us the option to save about $75 by ordering a starter from AutoZone which would take several days to get but due to my previous bad experience on several AutoZone rebuilt parts, I wouldn't want it even if it was given to me free.

mtsao

Absolutely, time=money. And I know exactly what you mean with AutoZone parts--there's a reason that they provide lifetime warranty.

Toysrme

First of all this is a three bolt project... One of which removes the cruise control box and is irrelevant, because anytime you want at the engine or battery, that has to go anyways...

FYI The only reason my project took so long was because my sol froze in the closed positioin and the starter ran until it burned out and caught on fire...Which made the smell was so bad that hours later you still couldn't work on it for very long at any given time.


Secondly I got mine from Westwood. A fairly large local car part chain.


To go along with #2 if you ASK for the REAL part at the COUNTER. By God you'll get it.
Don't tell me you never figured out you can ask for real parts at car chains... Right??? Please tell me you people know you have that option...

Sheesh.

mtsao

Yes...and O2 sensor was a "single bolt" project on my CRX, yet it took 2 people the better part of an afternoon. The number of nuts and bolts to be undone isn't a very good way to measure the difficulty of a job. Crankshaft pulley is one bolt, right?
OK, what exactly are you talking about here? What do you mean by *real* parts?? Whether I go to Pep Boys or AutoZone or NAPA, there are **only** aftermarket brands...please explain.

amf1932

I think he meant by "Real Parts", is OEM(Original equipment maufacturer) parts.

mtsao

This doesn't make sense though, cus ain't it obvious?? --toysrme, are you suggesting that we've been buying non-oem parts and then making them fit the application?? This makes no sense...surely that's not what you mean...

Toysrme

amf is right. Everything in car chains are aftermarket parts, or aftermarket rebuit parts.


However as for locally; if you ask for OEM parts, more likely than not you can get them from anybody...
Our local Autozone, Advanced and Westwood all will grab OEM parts if you give them time to get it from their warehouse and bring it down. Instead of bringing down they're aftermarket knockoff that's the same thing.

Funny our local Napa dosen't... They're useless anyways. Way to proud of their stuff.

*
Sorry for not making that clearly... Understand I do my posting after 12 hours of night shift and 3 -4 hours of random college classes.

skperformance

iTrader: (6)

I say it is you alternator not the starter and you just wasted your money on changing the wrong part.
The alternators have a problem with low idle voltage being insufficent.
Now if teh alternator does not charge the battery sufficently before turning off it will lose enogh power to not be able to start at a much later time. Repeated attempts at starting the car will cause carbon tracking in the starter which will mean it willneed more power to jump the switches inside of it to overcome the increase of resistance.Meaning you could have opened it up and cleaned it and it would have worked fine.
This is why your battery died before also ,meaning it wasn't a problem but became one after it was being underpowered over time. Toyota has revised teh alternator with a smaller pulley to make it spin faster at idle which keeps this problem from occuring , It is a very common problem on camries and especially es 300's. If you have burned out needles on your cluster then it is usually from having full voltage for a long time .Ones that are insufficent usually last much onger than other cars. Also if teh alternator sucks it will make the heated seats seem non existant. I know this all sounds real odd since you changed a part and it now works ,but it will return.

mtsao

skpeformance, I respectfully disagree. Yes, it true that if your battery is insufficiently charged it will not start the car the next time...but that's not the problem Lexuspia had. In fact, he clearly stated that he had replaced the battery less than a year ago. But assuming the vehicle hasn't been stored, a healthy battery should not just "lose power" between starts unless the alternator is seriously underperforming, and if this is the case, the symptoms would not be limited to difficulty starting in cold weather, to say the least. Further, alternator output is monitored and if it falls outside the optimum range, the charging system check light should illuminate in the dash.

Lexuspia did the right thing replacing the starter, given the symptoms.

skperformance

iTrader: (6)

No problem that you disagree. Like i said i didn't expect anyone to belive me, as it is out of the ordinary for a regular car . But the problems root is the alternator not the starter. It will not show a light on the dash as it does not drop much below 12 vdc usually 10.5 which is within spec. The alternator does not fail fully always only ocaasionally which is why it is most often seen as a problem. Because it is only a slight drop there is no problem seen by the ecu. When it comes time to start the car the next day now the battery will be at a low point as it was never sustained at full charge before being turned off. The cars battery will have to not engage the solenoid turn a few lights on and then energize teh starter motor. This is alot of power for a weak battery to give out. By all these things draining at once it will produce a lower voltage than normal and cause the carbon tracking across teh contacts .Which in turn results in a bad starter and battery after a while but the main culprit is never fixed as it seems to always test normally . Which is when the car is cold and there is very little failure then as teh vdc is fine at high idle.The easiest time to see it fail is when the engine is hot after an hours use and left to idle for about 15 minutes. If the car in question is the way i said it is the voltage will be low.
This is not an isolated issue but an ongoing one that has been adressed by a new alternator.

The right thing would be to see what was wrong but the starter as it did need to be repaired. Even if it is only cleaning the contacts taher than replacing a part .