Transmission Flush vs Drain & Fill for High mileage ES330
11-05-16, 08:44 PM
#16
I concede to the point contrary to that made by ChrisFix and my post.
I just wish my dad and I weren't so lazy/naive/"cheap" and actually properly maintained our tranny lol
I just wish my dad and I weren't so lazy/naive/"cheap" and actually properly maintained our tranny lol
11-05-16, 10:14 PM
#17
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No one seems willing to define what a flush actually is. From what I've read fluid pressure at the transmission cooler lines is about 40 PSI, in some areas of the transmission it can be 250 PSI. So unless you use a machine that exceeds the pressure of the transmission pump there is absolutely no harm in "flushing" a transmission. My method is remove the return line and direct it into a container, start the car and let the tranny pump do the work. Never had a problem.
Everyone and their dog seems to repeat the, "don't flush if the fluid is dirty" mantra but I have never seen one documented case of this harming the transmission. If the clutch pack material floating around in the fluid is the only thing keeping the transmission from slipping then the unit won't be lasting much longer anyway.
Either way replace your transmission fluid every 20,000 miles (all of it) and you'll never have a failure. Cheap insurance.
Everyone and their dog seems to repeat the, "don't flush if the fluid is dirty" mantra but I have never seen one documented case of this harming the transmission. If the clutch pack material floating around in the fluid is the only thing keeping the transmission from slipping then the unit won't be lasting much longer anyway.
Either way replace your transmission fluid every 20,000 miles (all of it) and you'll never have a failure. Cheap insurance.
To the OP:
My presumption was your transmission was working fine. Chris Fix is a talented video producer who monetizes his presentations, but not a mechanic or engineer. In fact, he describes himself as an "automotive influencer." Because of course, that is the authority to go to, right?
Honestly, he is correct when he says at one point, "changing your fluid will never cause your transmission to fail." That's the comment he made that I should have referenced directly; I did not know he got confused and backed off it later in the video. But he is correct in that point because unintended crap IN the fluid is not going to influence friction adherence in a positive way. Chris Fix is far more reliable than some of the real idiots out there like Scotty Kilmer. The only youtube guru I have real respect for is Eric (the Car Guy), though I don't think he rebuilds transmissions. The difference between Eric and Chris is that Eric is using sound mechanical reason, logic, and coupling that with vast experience. Chris is more re-packaging what he's picked up. I guess that's the difference between a mechanic and an influencer. :https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-fix-451115a7
Let's take for example a high-mileage transmission with dirty or worn fluid, but an otherwise fully functioning transmission. Let us then drain out a small percentage of the fluid (~25%) and replace it with fresh - which is what a drain/fill does - what generally happens is that your fresh fluid will re-solubilize material that has fallen out of suspension in the dirty, over-loaded fluid. This material I am describing will accumulate in the bottom of the pan on these Aisin transmissions because they do not have a cellulose filter that captures it. You will quickly load that fluid back up and be right back where you were at the start in many cases. You have gone from having 25% clean fluid/75% bad in your transmission to being full dirty again in a week. And we haven't discussed the effect of sheer on the fluid and that 25% new isn't going to improve the overall viscosity of the sheered-down fluid much at all, so your increased wear rate won't be slowed down much.
The really best thing to do with a HM transmission of unknown history is drop the pan, clean it out, inspect or change the filter depending upon type (not necessary in these particular transmissions), and then correctly re-fill with compatible fluid, synthetic where available. Now you have a baseline established for maintenance and can be confident you didn't leave a real mess inside or just kicked the can down the road. Because that's all a drain/fill on a HM transmission is.
What some people will do - because it splits the difference between what is mechanically sound, cost effective and efficient and what is internet/cracker barrel folk-wisdom on the subject - is do 3 or 4 drain fills in a row, each a week or some other random time or mileage variable apart. This is about 85% as good as doing doing a flush at once. And it has the added comfort factor of being twice as costly in materials and three times the labor. But it feels better.
Although I am not able to fully understand how the method you described would not lead to the concerns raised by the other argument, your and "Lexus2000" arguments sounds logical and solid. It made me torn again between doing a "flush" and "drain & fill". However, I got confused when I reached your recommendation of dropping the pan and cleaning it followed by refilling. Isn't that the drain/fill process or am I missing something?
I enjoyed your counter argument, thanks for that
11-05-16, 10:59 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
I used to watch Eric The Car Guy but he doesn't do repair videos anymore I don't think just vanity projects and the like. Which is fine he's done more than his share of wrenching. The "other" Eric is my favourite auto tech on Youtube
11-07-16, 02:25 PM
#19
So regardless of fluid exchange or drain-fill, you may or may not change the valve strainer (filter). This is an independent step in the process that is not always repeated.
11-08-16, 07:09 PM
#21
I used to watch Eric The Car Guy but he doesn't do repair videos anymore I don't think just vanity projects and the like. Which is fine he's done more than his share of wrenching. The "other" Eric is my favourite auto tech on Youtube
11-09-16, 03:03 PM
#22
Tell me if I understand correctly.
You can disconnect the cooling line at the radiator to drain the transmission completely (engine running?) and this is considered a transmission flush? I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked.
You can disconnect the cooling line at the radiator to drain the transmission completely (engine running?) and this is considered a transmission flush? I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked.
11-09-16, 05:05 PM
#23
Tell me if I understand correctly.
You can disconnect the cooling line at the radiator to drain the transmission completely (engine running?) and this is considered a transmission flush? I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked.
You can disconnect the cooling line at the radiator to drain the transmission completely (engine running?) and this is considered a transmission flush? I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked.
11-09-16, 05:11 PM
#24
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Hello, what about the BG trans. cleaning system? Had it done to 04 es I had, worked good. Now have 2002 es, 2004 es and 2008 rx 350 awd. I watched the bg system work, car is running. Just want to see what other people think about it thanks.
11-09-16, 06:51 PM
#25
"Nowhere in this thread was a radiator or a coolant line mentioned haha. Where are you getting this from? "
I think he is just mentioning the AT fluid return line at the radiator.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...lush-pics.html
" I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked. "
Dealers usually try to be melodramatic or try to make it look like a "big" job. For all you know, they might even to 1x or 2x drain-fill and you will never know. There are such experiences you can read on the web. But if your car is out of warranty for any particular work done, an independent mechanic will save you money here.
" what about the BG trans. cleaning system? "
Sure, I guess that is fine as there is full fluid exchange. The above DIY shows the exchange (flush) manually without that system.
I think he is just mentioning the AT fluid return line at the radiator.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...lush-pics.html
" I ask because the local dealer told me that a flush required a special machine and no other method worked. "
Dealers usually try to be melodramatic or try to make it look like a "big" job. For all you know, they might even to 1x or 2x drain-fill and you will never know. There are such experiences you can read on the web. But if your car is out of warranty for any particular work done, an independent mechanic will save you money here.
" what about the BG trans. cleaning system? "
Sure, I guess that is fine as there is full fluid exchange. The above DIY shows the exchange (flush) manually without that system.
Last edited by surgeon0; 11-09-16 at 07:28 PM.
11-15-16, 04:10 PM
#26
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