1998 and 2001 ES 300's | Desperate for advice on engine sludge in both
06-06-16, 03:17 AM
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1998 and 2001 ES 300's | Desperate for advice on engine sludge in both
Hi, I desperately need advice. I live in Austin, TX and have 2 Lexus ES300's that suddenly developed serious, if not fatal problems immediately following a tune-up and oil change. These are the two cars:
- A 1998 ES300 with 156,000 miles on it, and
- A 2001 ES300 with 62,000 miles on it
THE 1998 PROBLEM: I've had this car for the past 9 years, and purchased it used from the dealer here (Lexus of Austin) with 79,000 miles on it. It has been meticulously maintained and I have made every mileage checkup/tuneup, which has always been performed at the dealer. I tried to save some money recently by hiring a private mechanic to come over and give the car a tuneup, including an oil change. Immediately afterwards, the car had serious problems, to the extent that the Lexus dealer initially diagnosed $2500 worth of problems, including sludge in the engine, and later reduced fixing immediate problems to $546.00.
RIGHT NOW: I just went to start the car and the dashboard lit up with almost every warning, the brake went to the floor, and I could not even put the car into reverse to get it out of my carport.
THE 2001 PROBLEM: I bought the car used at 35,000 miles in 2012, it now has 62,000 miles on it. When I purchased it, I had it checked out by Sewell Lexus of Dallas, and they thought that the car was "in fantastic condition". Since purchasing the car, it has been maintained at Lexus of Austin, and has had two major services and oil changes every 5,000 miles. No one has ever mentioned engine problems with each oil change or tuneup. When the private mechanic completed the tuneup, he told me that I needed new tires - so I went out and purchased 4 new tires for $790. It also has a new $1,500 stereo with backup camera in it. Sure enough, the following day, I went to start the car and blue smoke poured out of it. I called the private mechanic back, and he said, "hey lady, not my problem that you take *****ty care of your car". I had no idea what he was talking about.
I took it into Lexus of Austin, and was told that there was "an extreme amount" of sludge in the engine, and that it would cost $8,000 to get a new engine put in. However, the salesman told me that "one of our mechanics is in love with your car and would like to buy it from you if you decide to junk it". I found out about the engine sludge problem on these cars here on this site, and asked Lexus of Austin about any recalls or warranties. I was told that yes, engine sludge is a known problem for these cars but that Lexus stopped replacing them in 2005 and I was SOL.
RIGHT NOW: Every time I turn the car on, smoke pours out of the muffler for about 2 minutes, and the engine oil light comes on.
SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:
1. Both cars have exceptionally nice bodies, high end stereos, new tires, and the interiors are very clean and well-maintained. I love the style of car itself, which is why I have two of them. Now that one is no longer driveable, and the other is on its last leg, I don't know what to do.
2. Is it worth getting the engines rebuilt?
3. If I did get them rebuilt, where would you recommend that I go - the dealer is not an option, far too expensive. What would the cheapest option be for me?
4. If it's just not worth it to repair either one, what would you recommend that I do in terms of getting rid of them? Should I try to sell them to private individuals on something like Craiglist, a junkyard, or just donate them and get the full tax write-off on the KBB value?
5. If I did sell to a private individual, how do I even value them?
6. I know that this is a dumb question...but...how long can I drive the 2001 with the oil light on and sludge in the engine? What's going to happen with a problem like that?
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!!
- A 1998 ES300 with 156,000 miles on it, and
- A 2001 ES300 with 62,000 miles on it
THE 1998 PROBLEM: I've had this car for the past 9 years, and purchased it used from the dealer here (Lexus of Austin) with 79,000 miles on it. It has been meticulously maintained and I have made every mileage checkup/tuneup, which has always been performed at the dealer. I tried to save some money recently by hiring a private mechanic to come over and give the car a tuneup, including an oil change. Immediately afterwards, the car had serious problems, to the extent that the Lexus dealer initially diagnosed $2500 worth of problems, including sludge in the engine, and later reduced fixing immediate problems to $546.00.
RIGHT NOW: I just went to start the car and the dashboard lit up with almost every warning, the brake went to the floor, and I could not even put the car into reverse to get it out of my carport.
THE 2001 PROBLEM: I bought the car used at 35,000 miles in 2012, it now has 62,000 miles on it. When I purchased it, I had it checked out by Sewell Lexus of Dallas, and they thought that the car was "in fantastic condition". Since purchasing the car, it has been maintained at Lexus of Austin, and has had two major services and oil changes every 5,000 miles. No one has ever mentioned engine problems with each oil change or tuneup. When the private mechanic completed the tuneup, he told me that I needed new tires - so I went out and purchased 4 new tires for $790. It also has a new $1,500 stereo with backup camera in it. Sure enough, the following day, I went to start the car and blue smoke poured out of it. I called the private mechanic back, and he said, "hey lady, not my problem that you take *****ty care of your car". I had no idea what he was talking about.
I took it into Lexus of Austin, and was told that there was "an extreme amount" of sludge in the engine, and that it would cost $8,000 to get a new engine put in. However, the salesman told me that "one of our mechanics is in love with your car and would like to buy it from you if you decide to junk it". I found out about the engine sludge problem on these cars here on this site, and asked Lexus of Austin about any recalls or warranties. I was told that yes, engine sludge is a known problem for these cars but that Lexus stopped replacing them in 2005 and I was SOL.
RIGHT NOW: Every time I turn the car on, smoke pours out of the muffler for about 2 minutes, and the engine oil light comes on.
SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:
1. Both cars have exceptionally nice bodies, high end stereos, new tires, and the interiors are very clean and well-maintained. I love the style of car itself, which is why I have two of them. Now that one is no longer driveable, and the other is on its last leg, I don't know what to do.
2. Is it worth getting the engines rebuilt?
3. If I did get them rebuilt, where would you recommend that I go - the dealer is not an option, far too expensive. What would the cheapest option be for me?
4. If it's just not worth it to repair either one, what would you recommend that I do in terms of getting rid of them? Should I try to sell them to private individuals on something like Craiglist, a junkyard, or just donate them and get the full tax write-off on the KBB value?
5. If I did sell to a private individual, how do I even value them?
6. I know that this is a dumb question...but...how long can I drive the 2001 with the oil light on and sludge in the engine? What's going to happen with a problem like that?
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!!
06-06-16, 05:50 AM
#2
Instructor
I had an '01 that had the engine dealer overhauled due to the sludge issue (prior to me owning it) - now I make sure and run flush though my '02 every other oil change.
06-06-16, 05:57 AM
#3
Lexus Champion
The only practical way to look for a sludge issue is to have someone remove your FRONT valve cover. It's an easy 20 min job. Any sludge will than become evident.
That's the easiest and cheapest way to either confirm or eliminate sludge as being the issue.
That's the easiest and cheapest way to either confirm or eliminate sludge as being the issue.
Last edited by PFB; 06-06-16 at 06:17 AM.
06-06-16, 06:28 AM
#4
Greetings Ms. Moss,
I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune with both of your Lexus. While some technical analysis needs to be done, it appears to be more than a coincidence that both of your cars became worse as the result of this "private mechanic's" work which he refuses to stand behind. If the oil he installed is still in both cars, I would have it analyzed. I may be somewhat suspicious from 40 years of law practice dealing with dishonest people but this really sounds like sabotage to me. Before I purchased my very gently used 2003 ES300 last year I tested every car I looked at with oil test papers which tell you a lot about how a car was cared for and whether there's fuel or water in the oil, etc. You can find them on ebay .
I'm curious also as to why you have allowed the "private mechanic" to continue breathing. I'm not sure I'd have the same level of self-control.
Good luck,
Vic
Fort Myers, Florida
2003 ES300 Millennium Silver
I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune with both of your Lexus. While some technical analysis needs to be done, it appears to be more than a coincidence that both of your cars became worse as the result of this "private mechanic's" work which he refuses to stand behind. If the oil he installed is still in both cars, I would have it analyzed. I may be somewhat suspicious from 40 years of law practice dealing with dishonest people but this really sounds like sabotage to me. Before I purchased my very gently used 2003 ES300 last year I tested every car I looked at with oil test papers which tell you a lot about how a car was cared for and whether there's fuel or water in the oil, etc. You can find them on ebay .
I'm curious also as to why you have allowed the "private mechanic" to continue breathing. I'm not sure I'd have the same level of self-control.
Good luck,
Vic
Fort Myers, Florida
2003 ES300 Millennium Silver
06-06-16, 08:07 AM
#5
Intermediate
If the engine oil light is on - do not drive the car. There are two indicator lights associated with engine oil.
Do you have the owners manual? It will show the indicators lights and their definitions.
______
From the owners manual
Low Engine Oil Pressure Warning Light
This light warns that the engine oil pressure is too low. If it flickers or stays on while you are driving, pull off the road to a safe place and stop the engine immediately. Call a Lexus dealer or qualified repair shop for assistance. The light may occasionally flicker when the engine is idling or it may come on briefly after a hard stop. There is no cause for concern if it then goes out when the engine is accelerated slightly.
The light may come on when the oil level is extremely low. It is not designed to indicate low oil level, and the oil level must be checked using the oil level dipstick.
NOTICE
Do not drive the vehicle with the warning light on – even for one block. It may ruin the engine
Low Engine Oil Level Warning Light
This light warns that the engine oil level is too low. Add oil as soon as possible. (For instructions, see “Checking the engine oil level” on page 302.) While driving on steep inclines or rough roads which causes the vehicle to substantially sway or on curves, this light may come on due to the movement of engine oil in the engine.
NOTICE
Continued engine operation with low engine oil will damage the engine.
These lights coming on immediately after the work he did, I question what type/weight of "fluid" he put in the engine crankcase & was it filled to the proper level. It could be a matter of draining out the oil pan and replace with proper spec oil plus changing the oil filter.
_____
As mentioned earlier, taking off the front valve cover to inspect for sludge will give the answer.
1998 vehicle - Did the Lexus dealer detail out on the customer invoice what the $546 covers (what parts, etc..)? It could be unplugged wires, detached vacuum lines, etc.. And how does the diagnosis go from sludge which can be major to fix on a 156k mile car to $546? For a mechanic to say sludge, one would believe they confirmed the diagnosis with removal of at least valve cover. Did they charge you a labor fee to diagnose this car?
2001 vehicle - with the scheduled maintenance performed by Lexus dealer consistently, I am a bit suspect of "sludge" diagnosis. "the salesman told me that "one of our mechanics is in love with your car and would like to buy it from you if you decide to junk it" - that comment could be concerning too....
It may be worth a second opinion by a reputable mechanic before you "junk" them.
Do you have the owners manual? It will show the indicators lights and their definitions.
______
From the owners manual
Low Engine Oil Pressure Warning Light
This light warns that the engine oil pressure is too low. If it flickers or stays on while you are driving, pull off the road to a safe place and stop the engine immediately. Call a Lexus dealer or qualified repair shop for assistance. The light may occasionally flicker when the engine is idling or it may come on briefly after a hard stop. There is no cause for concern if it then goes out when the engine is accelerated slightly.
The light may come on when the oil level is extremely low. It is not designed to indicate low oil level, and the oil level must be checked using the oil level dipstick.
NOTICE
Do not drive the vehicle with the warning light on – even for one block. It may ruin the engine
Low Engine Oil Level Warning Light
This light warns that the engine oil level is too low. Add oil as soon as possible. (For instructions, see “Checking the engine oil level” on page 302.) While driving on steep inclines or rough roads which causes the vehicle to substantially sway or on curves, this light may come on due to the movement of engine oil in the engine.
NOTICE
Continued engine operation with low engine oil will damage the engine.
These lights coming on immediately after the work he did, I question what type/weight of "fluid" he put in the engine crankcase & was it filled to the proper level. It could be a matter of draining out the oil pan and replace with proper spec oil plus changing the oil filter.
_____
As mentioned earlier, taking off the front valve cover to inspect for sludge will give the answer.
1998 vehicle - Did the Lexus dealer detail out on the customer invoice what the $546 covers (what parts, etc..)? It could be unplugged wires, detached vacuum lines, etc.. And how does the diagnosis go from sludge which can be major to fix on a 156k mile car to $546? For a mechanic to say sludge, one would believe they confirmed the diagnosis with removal of at least valve cover. Did they charge you a labor fee to diagnose this car?
2001 vehicle - with the scheduled maintenance performed by Lexus dealer consistently, I am a bit suspect of "sludge" diagnosis. "the salesman told me that "one of our mechanics is in love with your car and would like to buy it from you if you decide to junk it" - that comment could be concerning too....
It may be worth a second opinion by a reputable mechanic before you "junk" them.
06-07-16, 10:38 AM
#7
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Hi, unfortunately I don't have much recourse with the private mechanic. Of course I gave him a devastating review for his "service" but you know, these days it is extremely dangerous to even do that. Once they know where you live, they retaliate - and you end up with an even worse problem and it becomes a personal safety issue.
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06-07-16, 11:36 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
That mechanic, no matter how bad he was could not have caused a sludge problem almost immodestly after he finished with the car.
At this point, you're best bet is to get a second opinion from a TRUSTED garage as to what has gone wrong with both vehicles after that mechanic touched them.
At this point, you're best bet is to get a second opinion from a TRUSTED garage as to what has gone wrong with both vehicles after that mechanic touched them.
06-07-16, 12:59 PM
#9
From what I think I understand of the engine sludge issue, it is often due to the car not being driven much or being driven mostly on short trips and stop and go type traffic. It would be less likely to occur on a car that regularly sees some highway miles. Previous owner may not have changed the oil often enough also. Especially if they were only changing according to miles and not time between oil changes. I'm not surprised that there would be engine sludge if the car only saw 35,000 miles in it's first 11 years.
06-07-16, 02:57 PM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
I had a 97 ES300 with +280k mile since day 1. No sludge issue.
I have a 06 ES330 with +100k mile since day 1. No sludge issue.
I trust no one and do my own maintenance....
What does the code say?
Check under the valve cover and see for yourself.
I have a 06 ES330 with +100k mile since day 1. No sludge issue.
I trust no one and do my own maintenance....
What does the code say?
Check under the valve cover and see for yourself.
06-07-16, 09:48 PM
#13
Hi,
I also live in Austin, TX and own a 98 ES300. I recently found a Toyota certified mechanic who did the timing belt job on my car. If you want, I can give you his contact info.
I also live in Austin, TX and own a 98 ES300. I recently found a Toyota certified mechanic who did the timing belt job on my car. If you want, I can give you his contact info.
