Why: I sold my Lexus
04-26-16, 01:11 PM
#31
I knew they did a refresh in 2010 and actually like the front and rear fascias much more than the 07-09. Unfortunately they still go for $18K around here, which is a bit out of my range. What did they change to the interior to make it less cheap?
Good to know that the throttle lag isn't there in the 5ES. Any issues during stop and go traffic with gear hunting? I too love the styling of 2010+ more, and I feel like I'd regret getting 07-09, having had face-lifted 05.
Good to know that the throttle lag isn't there in the 5ES. Any issues during stop and go traffic with gear hunting? I too love the styling of 2010+ more, and I feel like I'd regret getting 07-09, having had face-lifted 05.
And yes, you're better off with a 10+ IMO... btw, they're like 15k before taxes with under 100k in Toronto, unless you meant 18k all in? Either way, I wouldn't hesitate and would have one if I didn't get bid up so many times
And a 30k 13+ was too much.
04-26-16, 07:00 PM
#32
I had a 2003 ES from new that was replaced with a 2010 ES350 (also new). The ES300 is actually still in my family.
The ES300 was a great car, I too had the throttle lag but learned to adapt to it. My Dad's 98 LS400 had it too, so I was already sort of used to it. Great interior in that car, you don't find that sort of material quality in entry level cars anymore.
As for comparing it to the 5ES ES350, the 350 is better in every way other than interior material quality. When the 350 came out in 2007 I didn't care for how stark it was, especially inside without the 4ES's wood trim across the dash, etc. The 2010 refresh addressed a lot of that, gained some much needed exterior chrome trim and inside more wood and leather trim which spiced it up a lot. BUT, at its core the material quality is still not as nice as what was in the 4ES, and that material quality in the current 6ES is not as good as what was in that 5ES.
I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.The 5ES has a lot more luxury goodies, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, tilt down mirrors, keyless entry and start. The manual wheel and such always felt downmarket to me in the ES.
Hope that helps!
The ES300 was a great car, I too had the throttle lag but learned to adapt to it. My Dad's 98 LS400 had it too, so I was already sort of used to it. Great interior in that car, you don't find that sort of material quality in entry level cars anymore.
As for comparing it to the 5ES ES350, the 350 is better in every way other than interior material quality. When the 350 came out in 2007 I didn't care for how stark it was, especially inside without the 4ES's wood trim across the dash, etc. The 2010 refresh addressed a lot of that, gained some much needed exterior chrome trim and inside more wood and leather trim which spiced it up a lot. BUT, at its core the material quality is still not as nice as what was in the 4ES, and that material quality in the current 6ES is not as good as what was in that 5ES.
I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.The 5ES has a lot more luxury goodies, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, tilt down mirrors, keyless entry and start. The manual wheel and such always felt downmarket to me in the ES.
Hope that helps!
Looks a lot better without one on that body style!
04-26-16, 07:30 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
04-28-16, 01:05 PM
#34
04-28-16, 07:22 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Speedkar how do you feel about a LS 400? You are right, LS 430's are still pricey. From what I read, 430 is just updated with lots more features inside. I'm not sure which is better on gas, more comfortable, less prone to issues, etc though.
Personally, I'm not a fan of all the crap new cars offer. Most of it useless to me! Every time I get in a new car, I feel like an old man looking at a smart phone haha.
Personally, I'm not a fan of all the crap new cars offer. Most of it useless to me! Every time I get in a new car, I feel like an old man looking at a smart phone haha.
I still like the LS430 though. It's just hard to justify, there's only like 4 for sale in the classified around here. And how could I justify coming home with a big V8 RWD sedan....
I can see where you come from about all the new tech in new cars. While I'm not against having plenty of features, I want them to be easy to use, while driving. Generally speaking Toyota and Lexus has done a good job on the user controls and layouts (with the exception of that mouse pad thing Lexus is doing). Hondas and Acuras have too many buttons on the steering wheel and dash. A touchscreen would be too slow and distracting for me.
I'm going to be taking my time with this, since I currently have the Solara to drive. Maybe next week I'll pop by a dealership and sit in a 5ES. The last time I sat in one I remembered the sleek body design made for a high hood sight line and low roof sitting in the drivers seat compared to my 4ES.
04-30-16, 01:23 AM
#36
Driver School Candidate
I sold my 2005 Lexus ES330 the other day. I had it for almost 4 years.
Here's a summary of my experience with the 4th Gen ES:
The good:
- Reliable, trouble free, cheap maintenance
- Smooth, quiet highway ride
- Outstanding build and material quality, especially the interior which is better than newer ES350's
- Many interchangeable parts with the Camry platform
- Torquey engine (240ft-lb torque @ 3600 RPM) great for highway passing
- Seat comfort (except for thigh support)
- Being a part of the Lexus club
The not good:
- Transmission and throttle lag seriously compromises the driveability. The transmission feels like its in the wrong gear causing the engine to rev up and the car to jerk when you slow down and speed up again in stop and go traffic. The pedal as a dead spot in the beginning making starts very jerky. This was the #1 reason I gave up on my ES and finally got rid of it.
- A lot of body roll in corners, car feels heavy and not maneuverable.
- Poor fuel economy. I averaged 12L/100km (20MPG) in summer and 14L/100km (16MPG) in the winter in mixed driving.
Here's a summary of my experience with the 4th Gen ES:
The good:
- Reliable, trouble free, cheap maintenance
- Smooth, quiet highway ride
- Outstanding build and material quality, especially the interior which is better than newer ES350's
- Many interchangeable parts with the Camry platform
- Torquey engine (240ft-lb torque @ 3600 RPM) great for highway passing
- Seat comfort (except for thigh support)
- Being a part of the Lexus club
The not good:
- Transmission and throttle lag seriously compromises the driveability. The transmission feels like its in the wrong gear causing the engine to rev up and the car to jerk when you slow down and speed up again in stop and go traffic. The pedal as a dead spot in the beginning making starts very jerky. This was the #1 reason I gave up on my ES and finally got rid of it.
- A lot of body roll in corners, car feels heavy and not maneuverable.
- Poor fuel economy. I averaged 12L/100km (20MPG) in summer and 14L/100km (16MPG) in the winter in mixed driving.
- Lexus doesn't make interiors with as much wood as my 2005 ES330 anymore.
- The ES330 also doesn't feel as peppy as its sister Camry V6LE. I drove my sister's 2005 Camry and made me realize how much of a hog the ES330 is/was.
- Unrefined engine: The 3.3L 3MZ-FE is noticeably louder and coarser than the silky smooth 1MZ-FE 3.0L in my Solara and the previous gen ES300.
- Tight back seat compared to the Camry of the same platform. Lexus front seats are fatter to accommodate ventilation. Also wished the front seat traveled back further for taller drivers and I'm only 5'10". The Solara's seat goes back much further relative to the pedals.
- The Lexus brand name brings prestige but also jealousy depending on who your friends are, the neighborhood, and what they appreciate. I mostly got the "oh look a rich guy driving a Lexus" compliment from friends/family.
- We can't have nice things: As much as I tried to keep this car mint, I got bumped in the parking lot and scraped by my brother's bike last year....that really turned my mind around having a nice clean car with all the other careless people on our roads. Its less stressful driving a beater car and not having to worry about it getting dinged in the Wal*mart parking lot.
- Tight back seat compared to the Camry of the same platform. Lexus front seats are fatter to accommodate ventilation. Also wished the front seat traveled back further for taller drivers and I'm only 5'10". The Solara's seat goes back much further relative to the pedals.
- The Lexus brand name brings prestige but also jealousy depending on who your friends are, the neighborhood, and what they appreciate. I mostly got the "oh look a rich guy driving a Lexus" compliment from friends/family.
- We can't have nice things: As much as I tried to keep this car mint, I got bumped in the parking lot and scraped by my brother's bike last year....that really turned my mind around having a nice clean car with all the other careless people on our roads. Its less stressful driving a beater car and not having to worry about it getting dinged in the Wal*mart parking lot.
- Had to laugh at the rich guy comment because I feel the same way. I have a Sonora Gold Pearl and it still looks great after 10 years. The Lexus paint is better than even my Mercedes' paint. However, it's a 10 year old Lexus for goodness sake and if I were rich I'd be driving an LS!
- Yes, the engine isn't as smooth as even the 4 cylinder on the Camry for whatever reason. Otherwise very reliable and it's got +150K miles now and I've started looking for my next Lexus. The new ES' look nice and I've had them as loaners, but they drive too soft.
Overall, I agree with your experience owning the 4th Gen ES330. Really nice car, but could have been perfect if it weren't for the transmission jerk and poor fuel economy.
Last edited by sfolexus; 04-30-16 at 01:27 AM.
04-30-16, 06:55 PM
#37
Speedkar, so sorry to see you move on from your ES, you were always one of my favorites. I hope you'll stick around. I suggest you take a look at 2nd gen GS', I couldn't be more happy with mine. My parents just picked up my sister an 05 ES330 and I told her it needed a stamp of approval from me so I took it for a spin.
I can see how you prefer your Solara over the 4ES, I think my 3ES rode much nicer and drove better than the 4ES. Very nice car overall but still doesn't compare to my old ES. Oh man how I miss that old ES of mine
I can see how you prefer your Solara over the 4ES, I think my 3ES rode much nicer and drove better than the 4ES. Very nice car overall but still doesn't compare to my old ES. Oh man how I miss that old ES of mine
05-01-16, 10:30 AM
#38
Having just bought a 3rd gen GS, i was talking to the guy at Lexus and we both agreed that the 3rd gen ES (00-01 especially) and the LS430 (04-06) were some of the best cars Lexus made in more recent history. My 2001 wasn't the fastest, techiest, or flashiest car in the world, but it just kept going and going with almost no problems and drove so well.
05-01-16, 05:39 PM
#39
I plan on driving my 2000 ES into the ground. My only complaint is the windows! I wish they were attached to the door frames. And the stupid cup holder design.
A lot of people seem to think than any Lexus in decent shape is worth at least $40,000.
A lot of people seem to think than any Lexus in decent shape is worth at least $40,000.
05-03-16, 04:25 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
- Lexus doesn't make interiors with as much wood as my 2005 ES330 anymore.
- The ES330 also doesn't feel as peppy as its sister Camry V6LE. I drove my sister's 2005 Camry and made me realize how much of a hog the ES330 is/was.
- The roof line of the 4ES is lower than the Camry so it feels smaller especially in the back with the sloping back.
- Yes, the engine isn't as smooth as even the 4 cylinder on the Camry for whatever reason. Otherwise very reliable and it's got +150K miles now and I've started looking for my next Lexus. The new ES' look nice and I've had them as loaners, but they drive too soft.
Overall, I agree with your experience owning the 4th Gen ES330. Really nice car, but could have been perfect if it weren't for the transmission jerk and poor fuel economy.
- The ES330 also doesn't feel as peppy as its sister Camry V6LE. I drove my sister's 2005 Camry and made me realize how much of a hog the ES330 is/was.
- The roof line of the 4ES is lower than the Camry so it feels smaller especially in the back with the sloping back.
- Yes, the engine isn't as smooth as even the 4 cylinder on the Camry for whatever reason. Otherwise very reliable and it's got +150K miles now and I've started looking for my next Lexus. The new ES' look nice and I've had them as loaners, but they drive too soft.
Overall, I agree with your experience owning the 4th Gen ES330. Really nice car, but could have been perfect if it weren't for the transmission jerk and poor fuel economy.
I had the same generation Camry (2003) before my ES and I can attest to the fact that the Camry feels much more roomy inside, with a more usable center console (I can store CDs, my phone, and real CUPS. It most likely weighs less, and with smaller wheels, it is much easier to maneuver around town and not so big and sluggish.
However, I don't think the 4ES differs much in the external body shape as the Camry. Less rear head room is probably due to having a sunroof, and the aforementioned larger chunkier chairs in the Lexus.
- Had to laugh at the rich guy comment because I feel the same way. I have a Sonora Gold Pearl and it still looks great after 10 years. The Lexus paint is better than even my Mercedes' paint. However, it's a 10 year old Lexus for goodness sake and if I were rich I'd be driving an LS!
My brother has a 2GS. Its a very decent car, smooth, comfy, reliable although parts are not as common as the Camry. It takes premium fuel and is RWD which don't help sitting in traffic or in a snowstorm. The interior and exterior design has a dated feel, no matter the color combo or condition.
I did an insurance quote on a 2010 Camry SE V6 vs a 2010 ES350. The ES is a bit more expensive $21 more per month than the Camry. Most of all, it is $30/month more than what I was paying for my 2005, with the same coverage. I expected it to be more or less the same, but $30/month is quite a difference, like almost half a tank of gas, or my cell phone bill. Hmm....
05-03-16, 04:55 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
FYI the wood in the 4ES and every Lexus IS real. Automotive wood trim is a thin veneer that is bound to a plastic backing, to avoid cracking and save weight and cost. You'll find the same on an LS, or a Mercedes, etc. No Lexus has imitation wood trim.
05-04-16, 08:15 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by speedkar9
I'm having some thoughts on the 3GS, specifically the 2006 GS300 (before direct injection gave problems with carbon buildup). How reliable is it, are there any common issues with the first year models, besides the dash rattles? How's the fuel economy, and are there any features missing in the facelifted version that I'd hate myself for not getting?
05-09-16, 07:02 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I've seen real wood on top of plastic trims out of a BMW, and I could easily recognize the difference between the back and the front, but not on the 4ES.
Toyota vs Honda
Just some observation here. I recently picked up an old 2004 Honda Accord (for parts but now I registered it and started driving it a bit lol). Boy is there a HUGE difference in the cars that Toyota makes and the ones Honda makes! Coming from a Toyota/ Lexus, I really don't like this thing.
The Accord drives very stiff, is rough, noisy (4 cylinder), hard seats, and really touchy brakes. Suspension is more complicated (double wishbone) which means more things are wearing out (had to do ball joints already).
It just makes me appreciate my Solara (and most Camry platform vehicles) even more, for how much more smoother, comfortable, reliable, simple and refined they are.
The one thing I do notice is the gas pedal response is so much more sensitive on the Honda 4 cylinder compared to Toyota/ Lexus V6's, despite both being drive by cable. The Honda seems very rev happy in day to day traffic with no tip in where the Toyota V6's feel lazy off the line and you really have to punch it to go. In daily commuting it gives the impression that the 4 cylinder is more powerful than the V6. My guess is manufacturers are detuning the throttle on more powerful cars to protect the transmission.
05-09-16, 07:22 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
When I pulled the wood trim to vinyl wrap the dashboard on my 4ES, it felt like plastic. I turned it over and it said ABS plastic. It seemed like all one piece, there was no distinct layer under the lacquer.
I've seen real wood on top of plastic trims out of a BMW, and I could easily recognize the difference between the back and the front, but not on the 4ES.
I've seen real wood on top of plastic trims out of a BMW, and I could easily recognize the difference between the back and the front, but not on the 4ES.