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Hi All, Iminterested in buying an ES300 probably 2000-2003. I have an LS400and understand its built to last upwards of 300k andmaybe beyond. I'm presuming the ES300s are the same, right? Can anyone give me some insight to any specificproblems with these years/model. Or is there another particular yearthat stands out price/value in that ballpark? Appreciate your insights.
I had a 97 ES300 which reached +280k miles in this crappy Canadian climate. I didn't have any major problems at all. Off the top of my head: seized brake calipers, EGR position sensor.
Thanks BDSL. That's encouraging. No oil leak issues? Did you ever do gasket seal maintainance? What other major servicing did you do? My 97 LS400 is troubling me and prompting me to buy an ES300.
Thanks BDSL. That's encouraging. No oil leak issues? Did you ever do gasket seal maintainance? What other major servicing did you do? My 97 LS400 is troubling me and prompting me to buy an ES300.
At 180k miles, I didn't have oil leak.
But I replaced the cam seals, front crank seal, valve cover gaskets while I was doing the timing belt.
Not major services.
At 280k miles, I was still on original starter, PS pump, engine, transmission, alternator, etc....
I would recommend timing belt service if it hasn't had it done.
I have an ES330, but I assume the 3.0 and the 3.3 are similar motors, in which case, I would expect the valve cover gaskets, spark plug tube gaskets, and, to a lesser degree, the cam and crank seals to be fairly brittle. Also, vacuum hoses become brittle and crack, while the smaller hoses might even slide right off their fittings. These are regular problems that are not unexpected to find on ANY 15 year old vehicle.
Also, I've heard of funky transmission behavior with the ES. My ES330 seems at times to struggle to figure out what gear to be in, but when I learned how it "wants" to be driven, it is perfectly acceptable. Apparently some are much worse, though, and there is some software update that may or may not still be available through a Lexus dealer.
My stepdad's '00 4Runner lasted him 340k miles. And he is a BARE MINIMUM maintenance sort of guy. Oil changes twice a year with standard conventional oil...works out to 12-15k mile intervals. He traded it in, still in halfway decent shape on a '07. Toyotas are generally very reliable, but you simply can't expect a 15 year old car to be without issues, so if you buy one, best to have a bit of money saved up for repairs (whether foreseen or unforeseen)...
edit: I did the timing belt service on my ES330. For what it's worth, at 223,000 miles, the cam seals were not leaking and the crank seal had a miniscule leak. I don't know if either were replaced at the first timing belt service (110k miles). On the other hand, the valve cover gaskets-particularly the front-were leaking profusely.
There are some substantial differences in an 00-01 ES and 02-03. You might want to focus on which you want first before shopping.
The late 3rd gen. has good looks and no major flaws. The early 4th gen has a more reliable transmission, more modern interior, less road noise, more fuel efficient by a good margin (because of lower drag and new 5spd. transmission).
We have 250k on ours and other than scheduled/expected maintenance, it has needed a new shocks and rear springs, alternator, PS pump, a window seal, oil control valves, and now valve cover gaskets. Other than the window seal (and typical broken CD changer), nothing you can not reasonably expect to go wrong and not hard or expensive to replace.
Thanks Oro and Tibug! Those are the types of first hand experience I'm looking for. While I don't expect a used Lexus to be completely trouble free. I want to go into this with eyes open to a degree.
Tibug, I like the story of your Step Dad's 4Runner! 340k! Nice!
Nah, I would just do them if leaks happen. For the cam and crank seals, it may be difficult to diagnose a leak because the oil would have to seep through the underside of the timing cover to be visible. That said, unless the seals are dumping oil (which would be quite apparent), I wouldn't bother with doing anything. That is, unless the timing belt is due for a change. If it is, it is a very good time to do cam and crank seals, whether they're leaking or not as the crank seal will be completely exposed, and the cam seals are exposed simply by removing the cam gears.
You can look at the front of the motor (well actually the side, but the front as in closest to the front of the car), and if the valve covers are leaking you will see oil between the valve cover and exhaust manifold. This is a before picture of my motor. Notice all the sludge near the heatshield. It made quite the mess.
The rear valve cover was barely seeping oil on this car, and actually only the FRONT of the front valve cover was leaking, as pictured. I suspect that the front fails quicker because it is being baked by the exhaust right there. My point in saying that is that if you're looking at a car, it's super easy to see if the valve cover gasket is leaking within 2 seconds of opening the hood. One more thing...if you're getting valve cover gaskets done, make sure spark plug tube seals are done as well. They get brittle as hell and may even break when the cover is removed. No big deal...a few bucks more for the tube seals, and some gasket kits even include the seals.
Ok. Thank you. That is very helpful as well. Makes more sense that the front vc would go due to heat stress. Did you do the work yourself? Who has the manuals for all the specs...is it straight from Lexus? And where do I pick one up? THx.
Yeah I did it myself. Front valve cover is super easy to remove. If you can change your own spark plugs you can definitely change the front gasket. the rear takes much longer because you have to remove the entire intake and a few other things.
A factory service manual is incredibly useful if you're working on any vehicle. I don't have one for this car, but would like to get one. However, an FSM is sometimes not the best reference particularly for the home mechanic. It assumes a shop with a lift that is full of every tool known to man. This is where the internet comes in...home mechanics find awesome ways to do things without buying expensive specialized tools for things...then they post those methods on the internet and save people like me a ton of time, money, and swears.
Often you can find PDF versions of factory manuals online...for free (technically not legal, though). Other than that...hardcopies of FSMs are frequently quite pricey. They can be found on eBay, and it's maybe worth a shot to ask local dealers.
ok. yeah, I've turned a wrench or two. I know there's DIY's here on the forum and of course googling around. Was wondering if there was a definitive guide/manual everyone went by. I know, depending on the motors, the job can be more involved (access and such like the rear vc your referring to). thx.
The ES300 is a reliable car, but it won't be as bullet proof as your LS400, which was built to a much higher standard.
As mentioned before the usual things need changing after many miles, mostly rubber components such as seals, vacuum hoses, timing belts, strut mounts, linkages, etc.
Mechanically, the 2002-03 models were more bullet proof, being less prone to sludge and transmission failures that affected 99-01 ES300's.
If you're doing your own work, there's alot of DIY's on this site, on youtube, and as well on Toyota Nation. The benefit of the ES over the LS is most of its mechanical components are the same as the Toyota Camry, which is a popular car with plenty of cheap parts.
RockAuto is a great place to get parts online. Most components can be replaced with a quality aftermarket unit, but some critical or labor intensive components should be OEM (rear engine mount, knock sensor, coils, etc).
Makes more sense that the front vc would go due to heat stress. Did you do the work yourself? Who has the manuals for all the specs...is it straight from Lexus? And where do I pick one up? THx.
No, the rear VC gasket leaks sooner because of heat. The rear bank is tucked tight against the firewall with no air flow. I am replacing mine tomorrow, in fact.
Basically I would consider a good practice to change the gaskets and spark plugs every 90k with the timing belt. The gaskets that need replacing are not expensive, and the VC gaskets are almost alway leaking by 150k, totally out of synch with the 90k timing belt interval. Denso long life plugs are good for 100k, so splitting the difference, labor, etc. on everything and doing plugs, gaskets, timing belt, tensioner, etc. at 90k is good combined work and no much wasted parts cost vs. their conventional failure point/longevity. Or do it every 100k, the belt and tensioner, WP aren't going to pop in the extra 10k. And it makes for such a nice LOOOONG weekend.
The 02-06 ES is to me one of the great used car values (why I own one) - great reliability, cheap and easy maintenance, excellent efficiency, ergonomics and interior design. I can live with the blah exterior because of the above outstanding virtues.
My next sedan will be a 2001-2003 LS430, but if I can't find a clean one I'd get another one of these, no hesitation.
01-15-16, 07:20 AM
Im thinking of purchasing an ES300...
