codeyf

I'm looking at a couple ES' as a first car for my son, and would like to get some input on 2 particular cars I've found

Car #1: 1999 ES300 - $5200
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5333305322.html
2nd owners have been meticulous with maintenance. In addition to the service items mentioned on the listing, it had the major service @ 90k for the timing belt, water pump, idler pulleys, and tensioner. In addition it had factory scheduled maintenance at EVERY recommended interval (15k, 20, 30, 50, 60, 80, 90, 100, 120, and 130k).
I drove it last night, and it was very smooth. However it was also dark and raining, so I didn't get a real good look at it. I plan to revisit it this weekend during the day.

Car #2: 2001 ES300 - $6000
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5337523279.html
I don't know that these owners as meticulous as the other. However they state the major service was done at 120k. In addition, it has had a recent oil change and brake work.
I'm planning on seeing this one tomorrow.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

mooseboy84

Both cars seemed a tad overpriced even in excellent condition. I would get the 99. More extensive service record and new brakes on it. Plus its 800 cheaper. Try to get price down to 4500. Honestly all the money theyve thrown in it, its a great deal at 5200, but argue its a 16 (soon to be 17) year old car and try to take it under 5000.

gabzor

i agree, the 01 has a better color option imo, but its not a big deal, excellent service records are!..
they both have bun warmers too! it's always better to buy the car from someone you trust, since you did state you know the owners of the 99 more

codeyf

I agree the super detailed service history is nice. They both have had recent brake work though, and it don't know either of the owners.

My target price for the '99 would probably be about $4800, and for the '01 around $5500. I also agree the color on the '01 is much better.

I should know more on service history for the '01 after it see it in a few hours. What I know now is:

"The major service was completed 20k ago. New timing belt, water pump, new plugs, flush transmission, full service. Oil change recently. Tires rotated regularly. Brakes were done... I will have to look up the dates."

PFB

It's not clear in the picture, but does the '99 have a sun roof?

codeyf

Negatron on sunroof.

PFB

Also, the' '99 appears to have 15" wheels, while the " 2001 has the "16 wheels

My 2001, is exactly the same color inside and out as the 2001 that you're looking it. I love that car. Mine came with the factory HID option, which the previous owner didn't even mention. Check in case your lucky and that car has it too. You never know.

Phil

Oro

While those cars look nice, both are too expensive. I find this often in Seattle where private parties ask dealer prices as if they are reconditioned and they are offering a warranty.

I used Edmonds.com and put in all the options, condition, and location for the 99 and private party sale goes out at $3,200 typically. And that jives with what I've seen in the local marketplace.

For your budget, I'd also consider looking for a 2002-2003; I do like the looks of the earlier body better, but the newer body style has a better tranny, fuel efficiency, and the interior is slightly more refined IMO. Worth it to me for long-term keeper.

Try printing out the KBB and Edmonds private party valuations and using them when negotiating. They assume NO hidden flaws, and are highly detailed and based on actual local transactions - very hard to argue against as a seller. I would not pay more than that personally.

JetsonES

Oro has a point, the transmission is supposedly better in the 4th Gen and the interior has aged better imo.

codeyf

YES! I think that the majority of ES' I see listed are very high miles, and all for < $3k. So because these particular two are at average miles and maintained well, the owners are rightfully looking for a premium (which I'm willing to pay). The amount for that premium however is a bit excessive.

Drove the '01 today. It was very nice, but didn't "wow" me, especially for the price. There were a few small things that would need to be addressed as well:

- Hood struts worn out, wouldn't hold the hood up
- Cup holder "wings" broken on both sides
- Driver side seat heater switch only works on low
- Key blade from the riginal keyfob+key broke off, so he had what I assume to be a valet key + the fob part

That being said, everything else worked as expected. Everything was in good condition, but as would expect for a car of this age, a top to bottom detail would make it POP. It drove very smooth, with nice even power and easy shifts. Nice Michelin MXV4's in 2013 which still had a decent amount of tread left.

I left saying it was nice, and that I would look in to what the cost would be for the above items. I later got a text from the seller asking what I would pay if they were taken care of. I thought on it for a while before responding. Given that the average for PP sale between Blue Book and Edmunds is right about $3800, I responded with:

"Thanks again for the time with the car today. It looks and drives great. That said, there's a pretty big gap between the asking price and high/excellent book value for a private party sale using Blue Book or Edmunds. So I suspect we'd be pretty far apart even with those 4 items being addressed."

I left it at that, with the ball in his court. He responded simply with, "Thank you". So I think the book is pretty much closed on the '01. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to go back and look at the '99 again. I think for now I'm going to just chill on it, and if it's still available next weekend, go take a look in the day light.

Thanks everyone for the continued input, it's been very helpful!

Oro

To put it in more perspective, the interior of the 2002-2005 (non-nav), is one of the most understated/pleasant interiors I've ever seen on a car. The 2001-earlier remind me of any 90's BMW or Audi. OK, but nothing special. The console/dash of the 4gen ES is the best Toyota ever designed, bar none. I've considered many newer LS models but even they aren't as refined in visual design.

I'd be happy to own the right 3 gen at the right price - factoring in the higher operating costs and maintenance risk (transmission reliability mainly, but also mild suspension issues). Both of those cars are excellent looking examples, but at the wrong prices. I was actually looking for a 3gen when I bought our 4gen; I'm not oppose to them.

gabzor

i agree with oro, i own a 2es, 3es, and have driven an 4es with the 3.3L a few times.. it is a better car than the 3es IMO, although the 3es looks great..
the 4es is easier to work on also, i've done some work to a few, way easier compared to a 2/3es
and it feels like its a generation ahead for sure, interior is much better than an is300 IMO and a bit better than the GS also..
the 3ES was a nice refresh to a 2ES, feels less camry-ish, but the 4ES, oh man its much more luxurious feeling


looks like that 2001 had factory hids, i didn't even know that there was a no sunroof model for the es300..

don't do what i did and make the same mistake, i bought a 3es coach edition, with a book of maintenance, but i made the mistake of rushing the sale, and probably have to spend a few grand to catch up on all the maintenance :/

for your son's first car, wouldn't you prefer something with better mpg? the ES isn't all that bad at all though

jaredmac11

Those seem very expensive... They also are very clean, so that will add value, but I'd have a hard time spending more than $4000 on either of those.

speedkar9

I agree with the everyone else here on the 4ES being leaps ahead of the 3ES in terms of its interior. It feels like a real premium vehicle.

I don't know about this one, the 4ES's engine bay is more cramped than the 1MZ-FE in my Solara (same as 3ES). You cant change plugs without pulling the intake, and engine mounts have to come off to change control arms....