XenonES3

Not to beat a dead horse...but to be technical.....

OUR North American 92 ES300 design had been around in other countries long before. Search the net and you'll fine MANY 1991 Toyota Windoms which are identical to 1992-4 Lexus ES300s.

I wonder...did other countries even receive "ES250"'s, or did they go straight to 92 body style ES300s?

LexFather

Just to let ya'll know since I have a ES and GS. The GS is a specific platform and aimed to take out 60k cars. It is built as a 60k car. The ES is outstanding, but it still has it's Camry roots. Now, the Camry is also an outstanding car but it is also a 18k car at the least. The GS is a 39k car at the least. HUGE difference. Lexus does an amazing job packaging all those luxo features in the 03 ES at it's price of 31-38k. Also FWD does not feel as solid as RWD in my opinion. The doors are more solid in the GS, the seats are way better, it's not that the ES is bad, it's just that one is built to compete with 30-40k cars and one is built to battle 40-60k cars.

Stock to stock, the GS is way sportier than the ES. If you look at the Lexus brochure, the GS is described as a sport luxury sedan and the ES a luxury sedan. All the bad hype of the GS not being sporty stock is utter B.S. as when it was introduced, it was porclaimed as a BMW killer with coupe handling. This GS is not sporty stuff started WITH US, when we started MODDING the car and realized it could be so much better. Next thing I know, every other car forum says the GS is a whale

I for one am very THANKFUL Lexus offer 2 cars in the 30k segment, the now FULL LUXURY 2003 ES 300 and SPORT SEDAN IS 300. Take the TL/I30-35/SAAB 9-3 for instance, nice cars but it has to be both luxurious (with fake wood) and sporty (with FWD). So they had to compromise. WIth the ES or IS you get 1 or the other FULL BLOWN. The Caddy CTS/Lincon LS tries to be both with RWD and fails as well.

BTW, Acura is a reliable car but not as reliable or bulletproof as Lexus. No one is. That is a fact.

The ES and GS won all their comparos until recently. In the recent comparo in Car and Driver, they found not faults with the GS except it needs more power (compared to the competition). They said it had the best built interior. Honestly, look at it as a 4 way tie. That is how stiff it is between the A-6/5/E-class/GS. The M45/Jag S-type/Lincon are way behind them.

Now the ES, what car at 30-39k can compete with it luxury wise? None. From the beautiful wood, to the electro gauges, to the way everything that opens, opens at the same speed, to the quality leather, to the sound system, to the esquisite looks, no other car in it's price range comes close luxury wise.

Nabeel

Good question. I recall seeing an ES250 when I was visiting the middle east last year. I'm unsure as to whether it was ever sold in the ME or imported there from the USA.

I agree with 1SICKLEX in that there is very little seperating the GS/5er/E-Class/A6 cars. Buying one over another pretty much boils down to individual preference. Also, although I do not have any experience with the Lexus GS other than test-driving one a while back, I can attest to RWD (or AWD) feeling more solid and composed than FWD. FWD is compromised in that the design is simply taxing the front wheels with too many different tasks (driving, steering, carrying the weight of the engine, carrying more load under braking, etc.). With that said, the difference in feel between FWD and RWD is more noticed by enthusiasts than the average driver. So...for the fiance in question who will be driving the new car, the RWD/FWD issue may not be that substantial of a purchase consideration.

Oh, and I hope I didn't come off as being anti-FWD. FWD has it's charms also- like superior bad weather traction, better packaging, and a nice safety net of understeer for the inexperienced driver.

kreativ

As the design cycles of the ES and GS are not in sync, one design will be fresh (upgrades, new features, new style) while the other will be aging. So it's not as easy to compare the two. When I was in the market for a new car a year ago, I preferred the '02 ES to the '02 GS. While the interior of the GS might rank favorably against the '97-'01 ES, for me personally, it was no match for the new ES. But I fully expect the '04 GS to raise the bar for both luxury and performance. I'm looking forward to its introduction.

XenonES3

ES300 rated best entry lux car according to this rating:
E-class wins mid lux category:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/windowsh...Home&pos=Edit1

flipside909

Probably not likely since it seems the 1st Gen Windom/ES250 was more of an afterthought than anything else. Most likely jumped into the VCV10 (1992) for introduction in other countries.

There's still alot of rare 5speed ES250's (2VZ-FE) and ES300 (92-93 3VZ-FE only) out there.

XenonES3

Interesting.

Also, In New Zealand, I noticed selected (92-96 US body style) Windoms badged as 2.5G or 3.0G. Can you shed some light on this?

XenonES3

hahhahahhahhahahhahh!

Dude, go test drive a 5 series and an E class and you'll regret you said that. If I had a GS I'd say they're all equal too...

Based on 2002 figures

The GS300 sells approx. 600-1000 copies a month.

The 2002 525-530i and E320 sell MANY times those numbers. Please do not give the excuse of the GS being "outdated". The E320 has been in current body style since the 1996 model year. BMW since 1997. Lexus 1998. There have been minor updates to all cars since...but no major overhauls.

That makes the GS the "NEWEST"....now go figure....

LexusPia

Threxx, I believe your fiance is better off with the ES since it handles well in wintery conditions with its FWD whereas the GS is absolutely treacherous unless you switch to snow tires. The other advantage of the ES is it has a sizeable and more useable flat trunk which really comes in handy. We have both ES and GS and my wifes loves her ES and hates my GS because it handles poorly in the winter and has a narrow trunk opening which makes shopping for bulky items difficult. When we go on any extended vacation (say longer than a week), we almost always take the ES instead since the GS' stepped trunk creates major problems when storing suitcases. In our household, the ES is a workhorse and the GS is used for my daily office commuting and weekend driving. Not to mention that some of the more frequently used controls (e.g. gas door, trunk latch, etc.) are more conveniently located on the ES. If she wants to save a little money but prefer reliability and a little more pep than she has now, she may want to look at the new Accord V6 w/ 240hp engine or the Mazda 6 w/ the 220hp V6. Both are excellent and fun cars to drive that are very reasonably priced.