'03 ES300 vs '03 GS300... which one is better?
#16
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Re: Re: Re: Re: '03 ES300 vs '03 GS300... which one is better?
Originally posted by Nabeel
Source? Toyota Motor Co.
Source? Toyota Motor Co.
Plus, this info has been posted here on this board many times before
It's what is also known as a rumor
Main Entry: ruˇmor
Pronunciation: 'rü-mor
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
2 : a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
Last edited by Threxx; 03-12-03 at 09:34 AM.
#17
Lexus Connoisseur
Re: reliability?
Originally posted by DesertRat
If you want "bulletproof reliability", better get an Acura. Lexus cars are pretty, but the reliability/durability is a myth.
If you want "bulletproof reliability", better get an Acura. Lexus cars are pretty, but the reliability/durability is a myth.
#18
Lexus Connoisseur
Re: Re: '03 ES300 vs '03 GS300... which one is better?
Originally posted by Nabeel
That's where you're wrong buddy. Since '92 the ES300 platform has been designed first and foremost for the ES300, and later adopted for use in the Camry.
That's where you're wrong buddy. Since '92 the ES300 platform has been designed first and foremost for the ES300, and later adopted for use in the Camry.
#19
Lexus Connoisseur
Re: Re: Re: Re: '03 ES300 vs '03 GS300... which one is better?
Originally posted by Nabeel
Source? Toyota Motor Co. Plus, this info has been posted here on this board many times before. You are correct, the Camry and the first-generation ES300 were both all-new in 1992. The only ES model to adopt a Camry platform was the 1990-1991 ES250, because the Camry was already on the market when it made it's short production run. Since '92, it has been the Camry that has been adopting the ES300 platform.
Source? Toyota Motor Co. Plus, this info has been posted here on this board many times before. You are correct, the Camry and the first-generation ES300 were both all-new in 1992. The only ES model to adopt a Camry platform was the 1990-1991 ES250, because the Camry was already on the market when it made it's short production run. Since '92, it has been the Camry that has been adopting the ES300 platform.
VZV21 (2VZ-FE 2.5L Cast Iron V6):
1988-1991 Camry V6 Gen2
1990-1991 ES250 Gen1
VCV10 (3VZ-FE 3.0L Cast Iron V6):
1992-1993 Camry V6 Gen3
1992 -1993 ES300 Gen2
MCV10 (1MZ-FE 3.0L Aluminum V6):
1994-1996 Camry V6 Gen3
1994-1996 ES300 Gen2
MCV20 (1MZ-FE 3.0L Aluminum V6)
1997-2001 Camry V6 Gen4
1999-2003 Camry Solara V6 Gen1
1997-2001 ES300 (VVT-i added in 99) Gen3
MCV30 (1MZ-FE 3.0L Aluminum V6)
2002-up Camry V6 Gen5
2002-up ES300 Gen4
Last edited by flipside909; 03-12-03 at 03:24 PM.
#20
I know the ES250 was based directly off the '88-'91 Camry, that is obvious because that bodystyle Camry was already on the market at that time. However, I recall numerous old magazine articles stating that in '92, when the new bodystyle ES300/Camry was introduced, the platform was designed first to be a Lexus/Windom, and later adopted for the Camry. Also, both the Lexus and Toyota dealers pointed this out when we bought our ES300 10 years ago. Since the platform remained mostly the same in the '97 redesign, I would assume this was the case until at least '01. I have no problem whatsoever with the car riding on the same platform as the Camry, Camrys are damn good cars. If I have time (I'm in the middle of midterms week), I'll dig up some old Car and Driver/Road and Track magazine tests of the '92 ES300, just to prove myself right.
#21
Ah, looking back through my posts in this thread, I can see where you may be misinterpreting what I said flipside909. I never once claimed that the ES300/Camry did not share the same platform. What I am saying is that during the design stages of the car, the platform was built first with the ES300/Windom in mind, and later in the design process the platform was used for the then-new Camry.
#22
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally posted by Nabeel
Also, both the Lexus and Toyota dealers pointed this out when we bought our ES300 10 years ago. Since the platform remained mostly the same in the '97 redesign, I would assume this was the case until at least '01
Also, both the Lexus and Toyota dealers pointed this out when we bought our ES300 10 years ago. Since the platform remained mostly the same in the '97 redesign, I would assume this was the case until at least '01
That's where the credibility of your sources are false. First of all...ANY salesman from ANY dealer will tell you anything to get you to buy a car....even if it's a blatant lie. The best liars out there are car salesman...even at Lexus sorry to say. If you check your Toyota history, the ES/windom is, has and always will be based off the Camry chassis.
BTW, I didn't misinterpret ANYTHING you posted. You can analogize this topic as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The Camry came first...and the chassis that the ES/Windom rides on comes from the Camry.
Last edited by flipside909; 03-12-03 at 03:38 PM.
#23
Originally posted by flipside909
"both the Lexus and Toyota dealers pointed this out"
That's where the credibility of your sources are false. First of all...ANY salesman from ANY dealer will tell you anything to get you to buy a car....even if it's a blatant lie. The best liars out there are car salesman...even at Lexus sorry to say. If you check your Toyota history, the ES/windom is, has and always will be based off the Camry chassis.
"both the Lexus and Toyota dealers pointed this out"
That's where the credibility of your sources are false. First of all...ANY salesman from ANY dealer will tell you anything to get you to buy a car....even if it's a blatant lie. The best liars out there are car salesman...even at Lexus sorry to say. If you check your Toyota history, the ES/windom is, has and always will be based off the Camry chassis.
2) You still don't understand....I never said the ES300 does not share a platform with the Camry. Read my post above for an explanation.
#24
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally posted by Nabeel
2) You still don't understand....I never said the ES300 does not share a platform with the Camry. Read my post above for an explanation.
2) You still don't understand....I never said the ES300 does not share a platform with the Camry. Read my post above for an explanation.
#25
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally posted by Nabeel
1) I could imagine a Toyota dealer saying that their car rides on a Lexus platform, but do you think Lexus dealers will do vice versa?
1) I could imagine a Toyota dealer saying that their car rides on a Lexus platform, but do you think Lexus dealers will do vice versa?
#26
Originally posted by flipside909
"
BTW, I didn't misinterpret ANYTHING you posted. You can analogize this topic as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The Camry came first...and the chassis that the ES/Windom rides on comes from the Camry.
"
BTW, I didn't misinterpret ANYTHING you posted. You can analogize this topic as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The Camry came first...and the chassis that the ES/Windom rides on comes from the Camry.
#28
Lexus Connoisseur
This is and endless argument. Can we talk about the ES vs GS discussion please? If you want to further discuss this, PM me.
Thanks,
Ryan
-Moderator
Thanks,
Ryan
-Moderator
#29
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally posted by Nabeel
Hehe, I'm done with this thread until I go to the library and look through the magazine archives, and find some old ES300 road tests that will prove my point.
Hehe, I'm done with this thread until I go to the library and look through the magazine archives, and find some old ES300 road tests that will prove my point.
#30
Sweet, one less thing for me to do. No complaints here .
Anyway, getting back to the original post topic........
I would personally choose a GS over an ES, mostly just for the RWD and better handling balance, plus a lot more aftermarket potential. But seeing your fiance's needs, I think the ES300 should do the job, and save some money as well. Then again, if you were not pleased after driving a CL, you might think the ES300 feels too much like a Camry. Another thing you might want to keep in mind is that the GS is due to be redesigned soon. This will bring the value down on the '98-'03 models. Nothing to be overly worried about, but just something to consider. Speaking of which, if you wait a while then you could compare the new GS to the ES300, and see what you and your fiance prefer.
Anyway, getting back to the original post topic........
I would personally choose a GS over an ES, mostly just for the RWD and better handling balance, plus a lot more aftermarket potential. But seeing your fiance's needs, I think the ES300 should do the job, and save some money as well. Then again, if you were not pleased after driving a CL, you might think the ES300 feels too much like a Camry. Another thing you might want to keep in mind is that the GS is due to be redesigned soon. This will bring the value down on the '98-'03 models. Nothing to be overly worried about, but just something to consider. Speaking of which, if you wait a while then you could compare the new GS to the ES300, and see what you and your fiance prefer.