Suspension Changed; Lost Lexus "Glide"
11-06-13, 10:25 AM
#17
if you want the same ride as a new car, you need to install the same parts as a new car. Otherwise its apples and oranges. The conclusion of this story: OEM parts and after market replacements CAN BE very different in quality. Notice, i did not say worse than OEM, just DIFFERENT.
That said im replacing struts this week as well. Fingers crossed, im using Monroe quickstruts (there is a ~100$ off rebate promo going on right now), we'll see how ride quality will be.
That said im replacing struts this week as well. Fingers crossed, im using Monroe quickstruts (there is a ~100$ off rebate promo going on right now), we'll see how ride quality will be.
11-06-13, 11:10 AM
#18
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01LEXPL, I'm confused, are you saying I should have kept the AVS using parts like you showed being available on eBay...a "good" used part for one strut @ $329? Why, you're talking $1300 and all the parts are "recycled" (even if you could get parts in similar condition for all four corners, which is doubtful).
There is no evidence (yet) that I got "ripped off" by my mechanic or that any research I did was faulty. (The folks here were especially helpful.) I merely asked the wrong question at the shop and made the poor assumption that my mechanic would be able to make an informed decision concerning the best option for the car that would bring it back to its original performance level. We discussed the ride, but not in much depth; they suggested KYB, people here talked highly about them too, but yeah, I should have dug deeper. My mistake was mainly fretting over the electrical implications of swapping out the AVS rather than what might happen to ride quality with non-OE struts. (And it should be no surprise to anyone here, I suppose, but I made calls to two local Lexus dealers and three to Lexus corporate, and no one had any information or advice they could share on the AVS issue. When it came to that system, on a car of my "age," they were completely in the dark, like I was asking them about some arcane part on a medieval buggy.)
And I must reiterate, AVS is not the issue anymore. That was resolved, and if you go back to read reviews of this car without the AVS feature, they all rave about the car's lush, vibration-free, quiet ride. The AVS merely made the car capable of a range between a harsher, but more crisper handling vehicle and an even lusher ride, neither extreme that suited me, so I kept the rocker **** between 2 and 3 rather than 1 or 4. I made the mistake of assuming that the KYB's--as I was assured by my shop--would be in the neutral range. Well, they simply turned out not to be, and in fact are way past the sport setting on the AVS system.
There is no evidence (yet) that I got "ripped off" by my mechanic or that any research I did was faulty. (The folks here were especially helpful.) I merely asked the wrong question at the shop and made the poor assumption that my mechanic would be able to make an informed decision concerning the best option for the car that would bring it back to its original performance level. We discussed the ride, but not in much depth; they suggested KYB, people here talked highly about them too, but yeah, I should have dug deeper. My mistake was mainly fretting over the electrical implications of swapping out the AVS rather than what might happen to ride quality with non-OE struts. (And it should be no surprise to anyone here, I suppose, but I made calls to two local Lexus dealers and three to Lexus corporate, and no one had any information or advice they could share on the AVS issue. When it came to that system, on a car of my "age," they were completely in the dark, like I was asking them about some arcane part on a medieval buggy.)
And I must reiterate, AVS is not the issue anymore. That was resolved, and if you go back to read reviews of this car without the AVS feature, they all rave about the car's lush, vibration-free, quiet ride. The AVS merely made the car capable of a range between a harsher, but more crisper handling vehicle and an even lusher ride, neither extreme that suited me, so I kept the rocker **** between 2 and 3 rather than 1 or 4. I made the mistake of assuming that the KYB's--as I was assured by my shop--would be in the neutral range. Well, they simply turned out not to be, and in fact are way past the sport setting on the AVS system.
11-06-13, 11:21 AM
#19
01LEXPL, I'm confused, are you saying I should have kept the AVS using parts like you showed being available on eBay...a "good" used part for one strut @ $329? Why, you're talking $1300 and all the parts are "recycled" (even if you could get parts in similar condition for all four corners, which is doubtful).
There is no evidence (yet) that I got "ripped off" by my mechanic or that any research I did was faulty. (The folks here were especially helpful.) I merely asked the wrong question at the shop and made the poor assumption that my mechanic would be able to make an informed decision concerning the best option for the car that would bring it back to its original performance level. We discussed the ride, but not in much depth; they suggested KYB, people here talked highly about them too, but yeah, I should have dug deeper. My mistake was mainly fretting over the electrical implications of swapping out the AVS rather than what might happen to ride quality with non-OE struts. (And it should be no surprise to anyone here, I suppose, but I made calls to two local Lexus dealers and three to Lexus corporate, and no one had any information or advice they could share on the AVS issue. When it came to that system, on a car of my "age," they were completely in the dark, like I was asking them about some arcane part on a medieval buggy.)
And I must reiterate, AVS is not the issue anymore. That was resolved, and if you go back to read reviews of this car without the AVS feature, they all rave about the car's lush, vibration-free, quiet ride. The AVS merely made the car capable of a range between a harsher, but more crisper handling vehicle and an even lusher ride, neither extreme that suited me, so I kept the rocker **** between 2 and 3 rather than 1 or 4. I made the mistake of assuming that the KYB's--as I was assured by my shop--would be in the neutral range. Well, they simply turned out not to be, and in fact are way past the sport setting on the AVS system.
There is no evidence (yet) that I got "ripped off" by my mechanic or that any research I did was faulty. (The folks here were especially helpful.) I merely asked the wrong question at the shop and made the poor assumption that my mechanic would be able to make an informed decision concerning the best option for the car that would bring it back to its original performance level. We discussed the ride, but not in much depth; they suggested KYB, people here talked highly about them too, but yeah, I should have dug deeper. My mistake was mainly fretting over the electrical implications of swapping out the AVS rather than what might happen to ride quality with non-OE struts. (And it should be no surprise to anyone here, I suppose, but I made calls to two local Lexus dealers and three to Lexus corporate, and no one had any information or advice they could share on the AVS issue. When it came to that system, on a car of my "age," they were completely in the dark, like I was asking them about some arcane part on a medieval buggy.)
And I must reiterate, AVS is not the issue anymore. That was resolved, and if you go back to read reviews of this car without the AVS feature, they all rave about the car's lush, vibration-free, quiet ride. The AVS merely made the car capable of a range between a harsher, but more crisper handling vehicle and an even lusher ride, neither extreme that suited me, so I kept the rocker **** between 2 and 3 rather than 1 or 4. I made the mistake of assuming that the KYB's--as I was assured by my shop--would be in the neutral range. Well, they simply turned out not to be, and in fact are way past the sport setting on the AVS system.
You could've gotten all four 'quick strut' assemblies for what you paid off a 2000 model, from that seller.
All I'm saying is that you should've bought those, as it would've swapped right in, with the original specifications of the AVS system [I am aware that you don't care for it] but the 'used' option would've yielded 100% stock results that you were used to prior to the struts going out. Not to mention less time stuck on the hoist, and the 'factory valving' on those specific struts.
And i'll maintain that you overpaid, as a member MrBooby did an entire suspension overhaul just last year with a nice spreadsheet of all OE parts & costs, found here.
11-06-13, 11:21 AM
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rlx101 wrote:
"If you want the same ride as a new car, you need to install the same parts as a new car. Otherwise its apples and oranges. The conclusion of this story: OEM parts and after market replacements CAN BE very different in quality. Notice, i did not say worse than OEM, just DIFFERENT."
Lesson learned. I guess the discouraging thing was insisting on genuine Toyota parts (and the higher cost) for all other aspects of the suspension, but assuming the KYB struts would be more than adequate to get back that new car ride. I mean, I didn't try and nickel and dime anywhere, but still came out looking like a dummy (and a poorer one at that). But hey, the car still looks great!
Good luck on your Monroes...let us know how they turn out.
"If you want the same ride as a new car, you need to install the same parts as a new car. Otherwise its apples and oranges. The conclusion of this story: OEM parts and after market replacements CAN BE very different in quality. Notice, i did not say worse than OEM, just DIFFERENT."
Lesson learned. I guess the discouraging thing was insisting on genuine Toyota parts (and the higher cost) for all other aspects of the suspension, but assuming the KYB struts would be more than adequate to get back that new car ride. I mean, I didn't try and nickel and dime anywhere, but still came out looking like a dummy (and a poorer one at that). But hey, the car still looks great!
Good luck on your Monroes...let us know how they turn out.
11-06-13, 11:52 AM
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01LEXPL, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion as to opting for $1300+ of used quick strut assemblies from probably four different vehicles as being anywhere near analogous to the work and new parts that were installed on my car. And a look at my bill also indicates that it included parts and labor associated with a sway bar link, installation of a new upper mount in the engine compartment, and an alignment that should always be associated with a new suspension. You want to take off $200 for those things and my job was around $1800...sorry, but I'm incapable of doing the installation on my own and have to use qualified, high-paying labor for the task. I'm in awe of Mr. Booby--loved reading his accounts of this and other projects--but I'm not going to feel bad because I don't have his skills. Envious maybe, but not delusional!
11-06-13, 01:22 PM
#23
I'd like to chime in on this subject.
After doing all the suspension work - I hate the ride of my car. I switched to my winter setup with 15" wheels and tires, so it got a lot better, but during the warmer months, it felt like I was riding on concrete. Even on smooth highways, the car jumps and jolts on every imperfection.
I currently have Tokico struts, Tanabe lowering springs, and Whiteline swaybars. So I'm not sure which components are making the ride unbearable after more than 30 minutes. I am considering switching back to stock springs for more suspension travel, but I don't know if that will help at all.
In short, I know exactly how you feel, Avory.
After doing all the suspension work - I hate the ride of my car. I switched to my winter setup with 15" wheels and tires, so it got a lot better, but during the warmer months, it felt like I was riding on concrete. Even on smooth highways, the car jumps and jolts on every imperfection.
I currently have Tokico struts, Tanabe lowering springs, and Whiteline swaybars. So I'm not sure which components are making the ride unbearable after more than 30 minutes. I am considering switching back to stock springs for more suspension travel, but I don't know if that will help at all.
In short, I know exactly how you feel, Avory.
11-07-13, 11:09 AM
#24
I'm really sorry you had to go through all of this and still end up with a disappointing ride. I went through the same thing with my other car. I thought Bilstein would ride just like factory, but they made the car ride like a truck. I then switched to GR-2's which still rode really bad. I called both companies and asked them for the specifications of their struts. As mentioned before, the compression damping is increased by 10% and the rebound damping is increased 10-15% in both brands to compensate for tired/sagging springs. This is what gives the car a sports suspension like ride.
The other issue is the strut from KYB also fits the camry and solara as well as the ES. KYB uses the same valving for all those applications. They take the average compression and rebound rates of those models and then add another 10-15% on top of that. The end result is a very firm shock for a broad spectrum of vehicles. It may work in a camry, but it definitely does not work in the ES.
Bottom line is, we bought a Lexus to have a comfortable smooth ride. I would get the OEM shocks to get that back. If I wanted a sporty ride, I would take out my RX-8. The ES is meant to be relaxing!
The other issue is the strut from KYB also fits the camry and solara as well as the ES. KYB uses the same valving for all those applications. They take the average compression and rebound rates of those models and then add another 10-15% on top of that. The end result is a very firm shock for a broad spectrum of vehicles. It may work in a camry, but it definitely does not work in the ES.
Bottom line is, we bought a Lexus to have a comfortable smooth ride. I would get the OEM shocks to get that back. If I wanted a sporty ride, I would take out my RX-8. The ES is meant to be relaxing!
11-07-13, 02:57 PM
#25
Thinking about suspension, I went on Sewell and priced out a set of four standard Lexus struts for my car. It came out to roughly $520, which is very close to what I paid for the Tokico struts. Now I'm trying to figure out why I decided against the Lexus struts to begin with....
Last edited by Hayk; 11-07-13 at 03:01 PM.
11-07-13, 05:10 PM
#26
^ probably because that's something new. The off-chance I check for ES stuff there's no 'deals', maybe they're finally clearing out all the 3ES NOS... it's about time.
Also, sign up on sewell as a CL for a few % off that final price, it's not much but it will be a bit cheaper.
Also, sign up on sewell as a CL for a few % off that final price, it's not much but it will be a bit cheaper.
11-07-13, 05:55 PM
#27
^ probably because that's something new. The off-chance I check for ES stuff there's no 'deals', maybe they're finally clearing out all the 3ES NOS... it's about time.
Also, sign up on sewell as a CL for a few % off that final price, it's not much but it will be a bit cheaper.
Also, sign up on sewell as a CL for a few % off that final price, it's not much but it will be a bit cheaper.
11-08-13, 09:25 AM
#28
if you want the same ride as a new car, you need to install the same parts as a new car. Otherwise its apples and oranges. The conclusion of this story: OEM parts and after market replacements CAN BE very different in quality. Notice, i did not say worse than OEM, just DIFFERENT.
11-13-13, 08:06 AM
#29
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Following up, just took my car in for the change back to Toyota OE from the KYB's. The shop, while liking the "sporty" ride of my ES with the KYB's admitted it wasn't the same car, so they agreed to the swap out. I'll report back the results. All suspension parts will now be new Toyota OE, except the springs which are OE but weren't replaced. Crossing my fingers that I'll have the "glide" back. Thanks to everyone here for their two cents on this topic; I learned a lot from this experience.
11-13-13, 02:54 PM
#30
Following up, just took my car in for the change back to Toyota OE from the KYB's. The shop, while liking the "sporty" ride of my ES with the KYB's admitted it wasn't the same car, so they agreed to the swap out. I'll report back the results. All suspension parts will now be new Toyota OE, except the springs which are OE but weren't replaced. Crossing my fingers that I'll have the "glide" back. Thanks to everyone here for their two cents on this topic; I learned a lot from this experience.