Yurka

So today i went to costco to get myself new Michelin tires. i bought 2 new tires. My former front tires were already gone, rear about half way done, they are still decent. What i wanted to do is, to replace my front tires with the new ones and keep the rear ones. However after they were finished with my car i saw that the put the rear ones i had on front, and put 2 new on the back. When i told them, i wanted it the other way, 2 new in the front, keep the same ones in the back, they said its not good, and even tho my car is front wheel drive, they had to put new ones on the back, so the car will hold its ground better and it was their store policy. So should i let it be this way, or go to my shop and replace them the way i want it???

dengman

i would put new tires in front and old in the rear.

Yurka

thats what i wanted, and i think ill do that tomorrow in the am

ayonnebay

Most manufacturers and tire places advise putting the new pair on the rear. In fact, many places will ONLY install them on the rear. BJs will only install the new on rear. TireRack strongly advises installation on the rear, and points out that it is dangerous to install new in front. Sears too. Go to their sites and search for "new pair mount rear" .

When I bought mine I had no choice ......

Walt

SW17LS

You ALWAYS want to put the new tires on the rear, please don't put your new tires on the front.

The reason for this is that understeer, or a skid of the front wheels, is much more easily controlled than oversteer, a skid of the rear wheels. When you have two new tires and two older tires, the water depth at which they can hydroplane is different, so if you hit pooling water at speed, you could very well have a loss of traction on the end of the car with the old tires, and retain traction on the end of the car with the new tires. If you loose traction on the front, its easier to recover. The rear...not so much.

Whether the car is FWD or RWD makes no difference, thats a common misconception.

Please please leave your new tires on the rear. Do a Google search if you must but you'll read the same thing over and over.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

+1000 for the above post. You want the most traction in the rear. Its easier to recover from an understeer because you will feel it through the steering wheel. If you lose the rear end, it's already too late to recover from it.

hypervish

Yeah, always new tires on the back.

Take a look at this video:

Power6

I have to say, despite all the professional advice to the contrary, I'd mount the new tires on the front.

The advice and policies to put the new ones on the rear is based simply on liability and hydroplaning. And here is why that is flawed advice:

- "Traction" is a variable concept a deeper tread has more traction on loose surfaces, the shallower tread has more traction on smooth dry surfaces. This flawed advice is based on people not being able to handle "driving in the rain" (i.e too fast for conditions) which I myself have no trouble with.

- The TireRack test was on a corner, that is a very specific case. in a straight line, the rear tires follow in the path of the fronts, so the front tires being more resistant to hydroplane is very useful. The Tire Rack test was on a pretty sharp corner that you will not find on an Interstate class highway, why would you be driving fast enough to hydroplane on a secondary road? You should slow down.

-If your rear tires hydroplane on secondary roads in the rain, maybe you should have replaced all 4 instead of just 2 tires. Maybe that is the real lesson here, I almost never buy just 2 tires.

-How could one possibly "rotate" the tires, like ALL the shops recommend, if the taller tread must always be on the front.

-If you car has stability control, it would not have this problem, any modern system can counteract that situation and put you back on track within reason.

I do understand that tire shops play the liability angle and can't assume any intelligence on the part of their customers. Great for everyone else, I'll put mine on the front thank you.

OK time to go get my Rib Roast going Merry Christmas all!!

yeskay

you missed a classic case. Take a typical scenario where you have to take a ramp off of free way during a rainy day. it is obvious your front and rear are not in the same straightline during that instance and chance of hydroplaning is high.

please mount your new tires in rear. costco and other tire dealers are recommending correctly.

PFB

Another consideration is that at normal highway speeds, during a blowout in a rear tire, its much harder to control the car than when the blowout occurs in a front.

Yurka

well im having them on the back right now, ill get another 2 new tires in a bit to put in front, idk why, but after they swapped the tires, my wheel gets shaky when i hit 70-80 mph, and with old tires ive never had that even when i hit 110+ and wheel pulls a bit to the right even tho they did balancing.. so im gonna visit them tomorrow again i gotta get that fixed its not right.

Power6

I covered that, if you are hydroplaning the rear tires you are driving too fast for the equipment. Its a liability concern for the shop who wants to sell you 2 tires if that is what you really want.. Those of us that can take it easy because we know we have worn rear tires will be fine.

All those same tire shops (with perhaps the exception of Tire Rack) will HAPPILY sell you a 2-set of *similar tires* because they can't find the original model to match the 2 you have. So much for those tire experts over at Costco...

Maybe I need to be a little more clear because I am not saying you should go out and spin around on off-ramps: If you need to worry about whether to put the tires on the front or back you should be buying 4 tires...The OP already mentioned he needs the other 2 tires too...

Yurka

well i have 2 new ones, they are in the rear atm, and i have a decent tires (but not brand new) in the front, ill change them after the holidays, because right now im already wasting too much money for xmas, then im goin away for new years, and im a poor college student, cant spend all my money you know, so ill get another SAME 2 tires to put in front in about a week or two after i get my paycheck. but as meanwhile, ima go again to costco n ask them to fix it, i paid for installation package n i want it to drive normally, cuz rn im worried when i speed up, and for new years ill have to drive long distance, i dont want my car to get shaky you know

SW17LS

Power 6, your advice is absolutely in conflict from everything I have ever been told, either by tire manufacturers or by professional driving instructors. A simple web search will verify this.

Your assertion that you cannot hydroplane on a secondary road makes no sense. You can hydroplane on ANY road, at any speed. In any type of situation a loss of control at the front is easier to control than a loss of control at the rear. Have you taken any professional driving courses and been taught how to control a car through both underwater and oversteer situations? I have. You may think you can control an oversteer situation, I did too until I took a professional driving course. It's a pretty rare situation most drivers never face, under steer we've all dealt with when going into a corner too fast, but oversteer is something that will really catch you off guard if you don't know how to deal with it. Deep tread on the front, shallow tread on the rear is asking for an oversteer situation in adverse weather conditions, which is incredibly dangerous for an average driver.

I considered myself an above average driver, and performance driver training showed me how poor an average driver really is at controlling a car in dangerous situations. Something I think everyone should do.

It's also not true that tires with lower tread have better traction on dry pavement. You can't use the logic that because racing tires have no tread that worn passenger tires will have better traction. Passenger tires loose traction as they wear in ANY situation.

PLEASE mount new tires in the rear. The absolute preponderance of the evidence is that new tires should always be mounted on the rear.

I also would never replace less than all 4 tires, but if you can only buy two they need to be mounted on the rear. They can even be a slightly different tread pattern, but the new ones need to go on the rear.

Power6

Thats how it is when you disagree with "conventional wisdom" like I said this is a liability concern not great advice. I do agree it is probably a good corporate policy but not what I would do. I personally have never met a driving instructor that has told me to do such, they typically don't tell me how to set up my car other than to make sure it is safe for them to ride in or drive. No tech inspection at a track or event I have put my cars through has involved a tread depth comparison front to rear.

Words in my mouth bud. Hydroplaning is a traction loss due to failure of water evacuation of the tire, based on tread design, tire width, tread depth, speed and volume of water. Lowering speed reduces tendency to hydroplane. You do have to watch out for puddles though, secondary roads are not drained as well as a highway.

No one should be driving on the road where they are just a puddle away from "loss of control" you need to slow down, especially if you have bad tires.

Just cuz I drive an old Lexus I must be wet behind the ears young'n huh ;-) I have done BMW White mtns chapter driving school twice, Bridgestone winter driving school, ~40 track days between my SRT-4 and WRX with a few different clubs and numerous instructors (run rain or shine BTW) over most tracks in the Northeast (Glen, both NJMP, NHIS, Poconos BeaveRun etc), old SkipBarber SRT Track Experience twice, probably more I am forgetting. Before that I was into Drag Racing. Ran the last couple events last season SCCA H-stock in a Ford Focus ZX3, will run the whole regional season next year. I probably have too much experience doing some stupid stuff in public lots and roads too but lets not focus on that.

Every car enthusiast thinks they are an above average driver. I try to remember the more training you have the more you are overconfident. Most people are better of than enthusiasts like you and I because they drive more carefully. I do think there is a lot of value in driver training but the lessons are about knowing basic limits, learning how to follow protocol and "not be an unknown", and pay attention. To learn recovery techniques to where it is a reflex takes a loooong time. Just knowing what to do is useless.

Larger tread blocks with better support (i.e shorter depth) have better traction on smooth dry pavement. Go look at a performance tire compared to an all season. Ask the stock class auto-x'ers at the national level who shave DOT tires down for competition. Look at every Car and Driver (etc) long term test, they almost always get better skidpad results out of a worn set of stock tires than they do when the car is new. This is basic proven stuff, you can't just declare it not true and make it so ;-)

We're not far off here. I just think buying 2 tires as it is, is wrong. Only unless I really have a good reason would I do that, and I know enough to decide which axle to put them on. If the tire shop were mine I wouldn't put just 2 tires on the car for anyone. Gotta get 4 new tires. And none of that 2 different tires stuff, how do you know that the traction characteristics of each tire are close? Maybe the new tire has worse wet traction than the somewhat worn tire on the front? How would you know?

Not you or anyone has answered the tire rotation question. It is acceptable and recommended by all the same tire shops/experts to rotate more worn tires front to rear (as front tires almost always wear faster) but yet not to put new tires on the front. Perhaps if I set the policies I would say something like "more than 3/32 difference front to rear not allowed" any more you need to buy 4 tires. But I don't set the policies. I just call it out as dumb when a "tire expert" says: You have to put the deeper tread tire on the rear otherwise it is "unsafe", unless you already own the tires, in which case it is called "tire rotation" then it is perfectly safe. Sorry but that is bad advice. It is put in place for liability of some shop that just sold you 2 tires when you should have bought 4, that is all there is to it.

Ah well at the end of the day it is not a big deal, I only buy 4 tires at once myself. So do you. I have enjoyed the sparring to challenge my position. You have to look a the other side once in a while!