Awful coolant leak 1996 ES300, under the intake manifold.
12-12-12, 08:12 PM
#16
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eeeww.. yuck.... that is a nasty location. CRAP!! I just had my VCs done. Sure wish I would have read this thread before...
does the hose need to be factory?bend looks very minimal. would correct diameter coolant hose work?
does the hose need to be factory?bend looks very minimal. would correct diameter coolant hose work?
12-12-12, 08:59 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
Use a factory hose here. There is a fair bit of heat generated in that area, which is why they degrade and fail in the first place. Unless you know the specs/quality of an aftermarket part and it meets are exceeds factory, use the original.
12-12-12, 09:09 PM
#18
It's also a thinner hose when compared to the other two, and as the OP has stated, he wasn't able to find an aftermarket replacement.
OP, flipping the front tube seals might be impossible without replacements. I had to literally shred mine to pieces when I was getting them out of the covers.
Here is the thread that I was referring to.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...ent-1mzfe.html
OP, flipping the front tube seals might be impossible without replacements. I had to literally shred mine to pieces when I was getting them out of the covers.
Here is the thread that I was referring to.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...ent-1mzfe.html
12-12-12, 09:24 PM
#19
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i saw he posted he couldn't find aftermarket hose. i wondered if he tried to order a specific hose for this application, or if he just looked for a piece of generic hose. unless parts guy sees it, he may assume it has specific bends, etc..
I agree.... I would NOT cheap out on poor quality hose, but I believe there are good quality brands aswell. Just saying, if hold up is from dealer not having, and good quality straight hose would work....
anyways, if it is also thinner then maybe no other comparison.
I agree with you 100% on heat causing failure and not using lesser quality.
I agree.... I would NOT cheap out on poor quality hose, but I believe there are good quality brands aswell. Just saying, if hold up is from dealer not having, and good quality straight hose would work....
anyways, if it is also thinner then maybe no other comparison.
I agree with you 100% on heat causing failure and not using lesser quality.
12-12-12, 09:46 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
This is one place where a steel pipe should have been used, pretty sure the 3VZ-FE has such a part instead of rubber.
12-13-12, 07:26 AM
#22
As for using an after market hose, I actually took that hose to a auto parts store and they couldn't find anything to match it. The expense of the hose is no big deal, it's the disappointment that it wasn't in stock. I like to put things back together a day or two after I tear into them. I got things apart and called to get it from the dealer and they didn't have it. The next day I visited a few other parts places to get it and they could not help me. The next morning I took it in to a place and they still could not help me so I called the stealer and order it, they had it the next day. So, I would have had it in hand 2 days after tear out but got slowed down with the other stuff like the darn steering pump to fan pressure hose so here I am, day three and will finish up in a couple of hours (hopefuly).
Parts is the pain of owning an old car. I really don't blame the dealer for not carring those old car parts. My guess is that 1/2 of the people out there would bail on a car with this problem if they had to pay the dealer to do the job. Most 17 year old cars have several problems pending repairs and when they go to extract that hose, they will tramatise the owner with the related needed items and when they tell you that everything will be $2,300, they pull the plug. Sell the car off for $400 - $800 and get something newer. Heck, going for this hose caused me to do the following:
- Intake manifolds.
- Cam cover seals.
- Spark plugs.
- Wires to the rear plugs.
- Replace brittle parts like PCV and a few other tubes that broke.
- Speed sensor.
- Air filter.
- Intake tube that had speed tape on it.
- Leaking fan hose ($247+ alone).
- Upper radiator hose.
So, all in all, I'm likely doing about $2,300+ worth of work on this car that still needs a timing belt, some body work, some suspension work and has torn up seats. Most of those things a dealer could not go in there without replacing just to stay clear of liability. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the tires are dry rotted.
After some needed sleep I woke up still thinking about those darn spark plug tube seals and what I was thinking was upside down, may be the correct way. If there is going to be blow by from the seals install, it will likely be from the way they come out of the back cover. So, I'm going to leave them alone. They are likely tight enough not to have any blowby anyway. Both covers are vented, the rear through the PCV and the front to the intake tube. Not sure which direction is correct, if we get an oil leak, I'll know. LOL
I think the only part I now lack is the tube that goes from the front cover to the intake tube. It broke while I was lying across the motor installing that fan hose. Not sure what torque valve to put the intake parts back on at. I guess I'll shoot them at 15 ft lbs and hopefully that will be good.
Thanks again for the links, thoughts and help.
Parts is the pain of owning an old car. I really don't blame the dealer for not carring those old car parts. My guess is that 1/2 of the people out there would bail on a car with this problem if they had to pay the dealer to do the job. Most 17 year old cars have several problems pending repairs and when they go to extract that hose, they will tramatise the owner with the related needed items and when they tell you that everything will be $2,300, they pull the plug. Sell the car off for $400 - $800 and get something newer. Heck, going for this hose caused me to do the following:
- Intake manifolds.
- Cam cover seals.
- Spark plugs.
- Wires to the rear plugs.
- Replace brittle parts like PCV and a few other tubes that broke.
- Speed sensor.
- Air filter.
- Intake tube that had speed tape on it.
- Leaking fan hose ($247+ alone).
- Upper radiator hose.
So, all in all, I'm likely doing about $2,300+ worth of work on this car that still needs a timing belt, some body work, some suspension work and has torn up seats. Most of those things a dealer could not go in there without replacing just to stay clear of liability. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the tires are dry rotted.
After some needed sleep I woke up still thinking about those darn spark plug tube seals and what I was thinking was upside down, may be the correct way. If there is going to be blow by from the seals install, it will likely be from the way they come out of the back cover. So, I'm going to leave them alone. They are likely tight enough not to have any blowby anyway. Both covers are vented, the rear through the PCV and the front to the intake tube. Not sure which direction is correct, if we get an oil leak, I'll know. LOL
I think the only part I now lack is the tube that goes from the front cover to the intake tube. It broke while I was lying across the motor installing that fan hose. Not sure what torque valve to put the intake parts back on at. I guess I'll shoot them at 15 ft lbs and hopefully that will be good.
Thanks again for the links, thoughts and help.
Last edited by RSpi; 12-13-12 at 08:47 AM. Reason: add
12-13-12, 10:22 AM
#23
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well put. I feel the same way...inconvenience over cost on the hose.
I think you just described my car!! body is so-so, at around 120K miles, all cars would benefit from replacing all 4 corner struts/shocks (can still drive, but the new stuff is much tighter and nicer), and on & on with smaller repairs, big repairs.... they become a money pit.
I think you just described my car!! body is so-so, at around 120K miles, all cars would benefit from replacing all 4 corner struts/shocks (can still drive, but the new stuff is much tighter and nicer), and on & on with smaller repairs, big repairs.... they become a money pit.
12-13-12, 11:05 AM
#24
As you can see from my avitar pic, I don't mind driving old cars, however, I like them to look nice as well. If the paint is clean, seats are not torn up and you can do work yourself, keep it rolling. I just don't like dumping a lot of money into a car that looks dead. I had one that I put over 400,000 miles on. It was still clean.
Had to take a short lunch break just now. Found 4 of the manifold bolts sitting on the battery so I have to yank that top piece and the Chineese gig saw puzzel off to put them in. It looks like the intake bolts will be 15 ft lbs and the top piece maybe 38 ft. lbs.
Had to take a short lunch break just now. Found 4 of the manifold bolts sitting on the battery so I have to yank that top piece and the Chineese gig saw puzzel off to put them in. It looks like the intake bolts will be 15 ft lbs and the top piece maybe 38 ft. lbs.
12-13-12, 03:40 PM
#25
Well, she's all back together and seems to be leak free. I took it out on the highway and boy that was scary. It was pulling all over the road. The suspension needs some immediate attention.
I also noticed that the oil light was coming on and off. The level is good.
Tires are in real bad shape.
The speedo does not work, nor does the miles count any longer. I read the codes and it has a speed sensor code and knock sensor code. Do you guys know where the speed sensor is?
I also noticed that the oil light was coming on and off. The level is good.
Tires are in real bad shape.
The speedo does not work, nor does the miles count any longer. I read the codes and it has a speed sensor code and knock sensor code. Do you guys know where the speed sensor is?
12-13-12, 04:12 PM
#26
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speed sensor? I don't know... maybe on tranny ?
knock sensor.. is this in the same area you just had apart?
when you noticed the coolant leak did you see wtness, a puddle? smell burning coolant dripping onto hot engine? I am going through a small amount of coolant and don't see or smell leakage.
knock sensor.. is this in the same area you just had apart?
when you noticed the coolant leak did you see wtness, a puddle? smell burning coolant dripping onto hot engine? I am going through a small amount of coolant and don't see or smell leakage.
12-13-12, 04:45 PM
#27
This car had newish intake manifold gaskets on it. My bet is that they were less than 3 years old if not newer. Whoever did that was staring at the hose and didn't replace it. Such a shame.
12-13-12, 05:00 PM
#28
The lady called me saying that the car was overheating randomly. A couple of hoses had been replaced and the radiator. I looked it over about 2 weeks ago and could not find a leak. She didn't have the car tagged and insured so I couldn't really drive it. I told her to watch it and let me know if it tried to over heat again.
A few days ago she was driving to work, about 30 miles and it over heated about 20 miles into the trip. She continued to drive it until it shut down on her. So she called me and was only about 2 miles from my house so I went and took her to work. I went to check on the car and it fired right up. So I drove it to my place but did not see a leak. She said it was steaming but it was all dry when I looked at it. It did not get warm or hot in the couple of miles I drove it but it was out of coolant/water. So I filled it up with water and went by my buddies place about 1/2 mile from me. We could not find a leak and he thought it got hot because the fan hose was leaking and he thought maybe on the highway it stop (the fan) and caused the coolant to boil out and burn off. I didn't buy that so I took it back to my place and after I parked it, coolant started coming out of the bottom about a minute later. The car was not running but the coolant kept comeing out. So I put it on ramps and turned it back off and the coolant just kept coming little by little. I seen it down the back of the transmission/motor but it wasn't coming from any of the hoses to the heating system. I almost thought the block was cracked but as I kept looking around I finally seen some coolant sitting in the valley of the head behind the coolant filler neck. It was hard to see but I knew we had not spilled any coolant on top of the motor. As I continued to look I seen the hose clamp and rubber hose. At that time I knew that was it.
Since the car wasn't blowing coolant or steam out the exhaust and the oil looked new on the oil stick, I assumed the head gasket hadn't blown. To me, that was a miracle in itself. Volvo's blow head gaskets if you say the work "over heat" to loud. Their heads are very soft. The heads in these cars are almost has hard as the blocks.
Hopefully she'll be able to drive it a few months before she has to do anything else to it. The timing belt pulley is squeeling when the car is cold. SMH Rumor has it that this motor is NOT an interfierence motor so if the belt breaks she may be able to put it back together without replacing the head.
A few days ago she was driving to work, about 30 miles and it over heated about 20 miles into the trip. She continued to drive it until it shut down on her. So she called me and was only about 2 miles from my house so I went and took her to work. I went to check on the car and it fired right up. So I drove it to my place but did not see a leak. She said it was steaming but it was all dry when I looked at it. It did not get warm or hot in the couple of miles I drove it but it was out of coolant/water. So I filled it up with water and went by my buddies place about 1/2 mile from me. We could not find a leak and he thought it got hot because the fan hose was leaking and he thought maybe on the highway it stop (the fan) and caused the coolant to boil out and burn off. I didn't buy that so I took it back to my place and after I parked it, coolant started coming out of the bottom about a minute later. The car was not running but the coolant kept comeing out. So I put it on ramps and turned it back off and the coolant just kept coming little by little. I seen it down the back of the transmission/motor but it wasn't coming from any of the hoses to the heating system. I almost thought the block was cracked but as I kept looking around I finally seen some coolant sitting in the valley of the head behind the coolant filler neck. It was hard to see but I knew we had not spilled any coolant on top of the motor. As I continued to look I seen the hose clamp and rubber hose. At that time I knew that was it.
Since the car wasn't blowing coolant or steam out the exhaust and the oil looked new on the oil stick, I assumed the head gasket hadn't blown. To me, that was a miracle in itself. Volvo's blow head gaskets if you say the work "over heat" to loud. Their heads are very soft. The heads in these cars are almost has hard as the blocks.
Hopefully she'll be able to drive it a few months before she has to do anything else to it. The timing belt pulley is squeeling when the car is cold. SMH Rumor has it that this motor is NOT an interfierence motor so if the belt breaks she may be able to put it back together without replacing the head.
12-13-12, 05:04 PM
#29
speed sensor? I don't know... maybe on tranny ?
knock sensor.. is this in the same area you just had apart?
when you noticed the coolant leak did you see wtness, a puddle? smell burning coolant dripping onto hot engine? I am going through a small amount of coolant and don't see or smell leakage.
knock sensor.. is this in the same area you just had apart?
when you noticed the coolant leak did you see wtness, a puddle? smell burning coolant dripping onto hot engine? I am going through a small amount of coolant and don't see or smell leakage.
If your hose is leaking, you can likely see coolant in that valley. This car didn't leak all the time, unless it needed to fill up the valley before it showed it's head. I'm really surprised how fast coolant burns off the motor when it hits open air.
12-13-12, 05:47 PM
#30
The lady called me saying that the car was overheating randomly. A couple of hoses had been replaced and the radiator. I looked it over about 2 weeks ago and could not find a leak. She didn't have the car tagged and insured so I couldn't really drive it. I told her to watch it and let me know if it tried to over heat again.
A few days ago she was driving to work, about 30 miles and it over heated about 20 miles into the trip. She continued to drive it until it shut down on her. So she called me and was only about 2 miles from my house so I went and took her to work. I went to check on the car and it fired right up. So I drove it to my place but did not see a leak. She said it was steaming but it was all dry when I looked at it. It did not get warm or hot in the couple of miles I drove it but it was out of coolant/water. So I filled it up with water and went by my buddies place about 1/2 mile from me. We could not find a leak and he thought it got hot because the fan hose was leaking and he thought maybe on the highway it stop (the fan) and caused the coolant to boil out and burn off. I didn't buy that so I took it back to my place and after I parked it, coolant started coming out of the bottom about a minute later. The car was not running but the coolant kept comeing out. So I put it on ramps and turned it back off and the coolant just kept coming little by little. I seen it down the back of the transmission/motor but it wasn't coming from any of the hoses to the heating system. I almost thought the block was cracked but as I kept looking around I finally seen some coolant sitting in the valley of the head behind the coolant filler neck. It was hard to see but I knew we had not spilled any coolant on top of the motor. As I continued to look I seen the hose clamp and rubber hose. At that time I knew that was it.
Since the car wasn't blowing coolant or steam out the exhaust and the oil looked new on the oil stick, I assumed the head gasket hadn't blown. To me, that was a miracle in itself. Volvo's blow head gaskets if you say the work "over heat" to loud. Their heads are very soft. The heads in these cars are almost has hard as the blocks.
Hopefully she'll be able to drive it a few months before she has to do anything else to it. The timing belt pulley is squeeling when the car is cold. SMH Rumor has it that this motor is NOT an interfierence motor so if the belt breaks she may be able to put it back together without replacing the head.
A few days ago she was driving to work, about 30 miles and it over heated about 20 miles into the trip. She continued to drive it until it shut down on her. So she called me and was only about 2 miles from my house so I went and took her to work. I went to check on the car and it fired right up. So I drove it to my place but did not see a leak. She said it was steaming but it was all dry when I looked at it. It did not get warm or hot in the couple of miles I drove it but it was out of coolant/water. So I filled it up with water and went by my buddies place about 1/2 mile from me. We could not find a leak and he thought it got hot because the fan hose was leaking and he thought maybe on the highway it stop (the fan) and caused the coolant to boil out and burn off. I didn't buy that so I took it back to my place and after I parked it, coolant started coming out of the bottom about a minute later. The car was not running but the coolant kept comeing out. So I put it on ramps and turned it back off and the coolant just kept coming little by little. I seen it down the back of the transmission/motor but it wasn't coming from any of the hoses to the heating system. I almost thought the block was cracked but as I kept looking around I finally seen some coolant sitting in the valley of the head behind the coolant filler neck. It was hard to see but I knew we had not spilled any coolant on top of the motor. As I continued to look I seen the hose clamp and rubber hose. At that time I knew that was it.
Since the car wasn't blowing coolant or steam out the exhaust and the oil looked new on the oil stick, I assumed the head gasket hadn't blown. To me, that was a miracle in itself. Volvo's blow head gaskets if you say the work "over heat" to loud. Their heads are very soft. The heads in these cars are almost has hard as the blocks.
Hopefully she'll be able to drive it a few months before she has to do anything else to it. The timing belt pulley is squeeling when the car is cold. SMH Rumor has it that this motor is NOT an interfierence motor so if the belt breaks she may be able to put it back together without replacing the head.
p.s.: Knowing how many things are wrong with the car, it might be a lost cause, especially since it isn't yours.