mjbtn

Hello,

A local used car dealer has a 1998 ES300 with 80K miles, clean Carfax (I haven't ponied up for Autocheck - yet), and appears to be in pretty well kept condition body-wise. I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, and would not buy it unless my mechanic gives an OK. Edmunds lists the "True Market Value (TMV)" for this vehicle (assuming "Clean" condition) at $4,470 for private party and $5,581 for dealer. Nada lists the clean retail at $7,625 and KBB list the retail for this car (assuming Excellent condition - which I will say it is really Good to Very Good as far as I have observed so far) at $9,250. This dealer is listing it for $8,000 with the usual dealer "flap" about it being below KBB, yadda yadda yadda. Unfortunately, I don't have access to Black Book anywhere.

I have never really been sure how to interpret the differences in estimated values between these 3 different sources. I know Edmunds is consumer-favored, Nada insurance-favored, and KBB dealer-favored. Certainly NOT $8K! I have often heard in general never to pay more than private party value from Edmunds. But, what do you guys think?

Also, I went back over to the lot later and snapped a few shots from underneath. On the pavement, there were just a few fresh drips, but I would expect a 14 year old engine (not knowing its service history) to drip a little (even with only 80K miles). Since there isn't much clearance to slide under an ES without ramps, jack stands, etc., the camera was the only way I could see up under good prior to getting it checked out by my mechanic.

The pictures appear to tell a darker tale though. In particular, in the first two images, further to the rear of the oil pan, the chassis appears to have a gash or crack (and maybe it is supposed to be there), and a lot of oil/residue build up with possibly a lot more oil from the rear of the engine being caught by that panel that has the crack. The third image also appears to show the passenger-side inner CV boot with a lot of oil coating it as well.

Since I can't get my mechanic scheduled to look at it until after the holiday, I was posting here today to get some feed back sooner from you guys on the pricing in general, but also what you might think of the images. I hate to waste my time and money for the inspection, etc., if something stands out glaringly to you guys here.

Thanks,

Mark

Timothyj

I would pass on this car. Keep looking.

03 ES

Regardless of the low mileage, a leaky 98 ES300 is worth no more than 4k in my book If the body and interior is in good shape. I'd keep looking.

hypervish

I agree with the others. The price is too much, although the miles are low. It's going to be difficult to find one with such low miles, but I'd get something with 100k miles. Because by then the timing belt should have been changed (recommended service at 90k) which is one less thing you have to worry about. Also, maybe look for a 99' or newer, as that is when the VVTI was introduced.

The leak seems to be a rear valve cover, but obviously that's just a guess based on the pictures and where it seems to be leaking from.

mjbtn

Thanks for the feedback so far all! I may still have my mechanic look at it. Interesting point hypervish in that at 80K I doubt that water pump and timing belt has been done yet. I should add that the leaky engine does not concern me as much as it might otherwise in that my 1994 ES 300 developed leaking about 10 years ago. It was (at the time) quite pricey to fix it and I hadn't planned on keeping as long as I now have (18.5 years with 353K miles). It is definitely long in tooth now though! That said, the fact that even with my '94 being leaky, the engine and the rest of the power train has just kept going. I did drop the oil pan 3 years ago and cleaned out the gunk build up on the oil take up tube screen. But I think my luck is the exception, not the rule.

I must say that whomever had it must've been an elderly, occasional driver and kept it in a garage as the interior is in immaculate condition and the body has just a couple of very minor nicks and dings. I did get to start the engine up the night I first stopped by the lot. The owner had stayed late and was just closing up but took the time to grab the key and let me crank it. It started right up and was smooth as silk; no noticeable pings, lifter noise or vibrations. It took me back to when my '94 was fresh off the lot! I will probably still test drive it tomorrow and decide then whether to consider it further.

MikeLex

According to your description the car seems to be in good shape body wise. However, you are better off slowing down. The main problem is the price. Even with a reasonable discount (say $1K), the final cost for you will be not less than $9K (7K + 2K) due to mechanical issues (whole timing belt job, valve cover gaskets replacement and the rear main seal, which is likely the cause of the leak on the driver's side).

hypervish

You're the rule, no exception here! lol These ES's will run forever. Check this thread out, you'll see what I mean: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...-an-es300.html

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

I have a huge problem with the price. You can use the oil leak to your advantage and bargain with them, but to me, that car is not worth more than 5k, if that. By the way, that crack is not supposed to be there, and the oil contamination is a lot more severe than what I had on my car with 175k.

If you have that kind of money to spend, look for a 2000-2001 ES. They came with a lot more goodies..

mjbtn

Which is why, Hypervish, this one (being located locally) grabbed my attention. MikeLex, any "discount" would have to be more like $3-4K as you are correct in that it would easily be $2K to make the bare essential repairs. I am sure it is the rear main seal leaking too. But at $4K (for instance) and repairs if it held out as long as my '94 has, I think it might be a good value. But, again, I wouldn't buy it without my mechanic checking it out and weighing in on it. One reason I want to go ahead and test drive it right away though is that if there is anything funny about the tranny or suspension, I'd walk away right now.

MikeLex

Oh, yes, provided the car has no other major issues, even $5K can be considered a good deal, at least in my opinion.