redfloyd

Hey, new user here. I've had my 2ES, 120K mi, for a year and a half now. It's been leaking something, and I just recently got it diagnosed as a power steering leak. Apparently the pump and a pressure hose need to be replaced. Straight from the dealer, the pump is $600, and the hose is $250. I looked up aftermarket prices, and a remanufactured pump is $150 (after core), and ... hoses I'm still looking at, but might be sub-$100. The shop told me they wanted to play it safe and get the dealer's hose, since there's a chance 3rd party stuff won't fit (and I've seen threads here saying similar things). What about the pump, though? Anyone have experience replacing these things?

I'd really appreciate advice and recommendations for parts/suppliers.

Also, two questions about power steering fluid:

1. The manual says to use DEXRON II/III as power steering fluid. I know the III standard is obsolete, but apparently the newer VI standard shouldn't be used for cars that require III? There's something called Castrol Dex/Merc that the dude at AutoZone sold me, which might be compatible with the III standard, except the standard isn't regulated anymore, so ... ? I've been topping up my reservoir with it. Is this okay to use?

2. When I took it into the shop, they said they topped up w/ regular power steering fluid, but I've seen posts on here that say you should really stick to ATF, because w/ normal power steering fluid, components can get corroded, you'll hear squeaking, etc. Is this true?

Thanks. I've been lurking here for a while, finally decided to register.

LeX2K

The Castrol fluid you have is okay for the PS system. Do NOT use power steering specific fluid, it is not designed for your car, it needs to be flushed out and the correct fluid put in.

As for the pump, it is unusual for the entire pump needing to be replaced, if the pump is leaking the seal is probably worn out, it can be replaced. Sometimes the shaft itself wears a groove in it and that needs to be replaced. Also, look for a shop that will crimp the existing ends onto a new hose, no need to go out and buy one from Toyota.

redfloyd

Thanks for the reply. I'm slowly teaching myself about cars as I learn to maintain this one, and I just realized I never bothered to look up power steering during all this. I'll do that now.

In the meantime, the shop did say that the hose was going to burst at some point, and that the power steering pump was "gushing." Does that change your guess about what's going on with it? Maybe the shop is exaggerating a little, but they've got a reputation for being honest, so I dunno. I wish I'd known to ask whether full-on replacement was really necessary.

I haven't gotten it to gush in a while, but it definitely leaves behind a few small puddles from time to time. I could be wrong, but it seems like it's mostly after I use the A/C for a little while, although it at least drip-drips slowly for a while after I turn the car off (and stops soon). Which reminds me, the shop pointed out in this model the power steering fluid drives the radiator fan, and I meant to ask earlier if this means that the fan is running all the time, and whether the fan runs faster when I turn the A/C on, or whether the A/C has its own additional fan, etc. Basically trying to look for connections between A/C usage and power steering leakage, if there's any.

LeX2K

Does the power steering level drop in the reservoir? The drip drip you describe sounds like water from the A/C system, not anything to do with the PS pump. I don't know what the shop means by "gushing" but if the power steering fluid was doing this, it would be really obvious and leave a big mess.

Your car indeed does have a hydraulic cooling fan driven by the power steering pump, unique in the auto world. The fan is infinitely variable based on engine temperature, but it never stops turning completely when the engine is cold, it just turns very slowly. There is only one fan, as far as I know the fan does not run instantly faster when you turn on the A/C, but I could be wrong.

There is an electronic control under the dash right hand side, this unit regulates voltage to a flow control solenoid attached to the PS pump. Often times mechanics will inadvertently disconnect the wire going to the solenoid (most have no idea the car even has a hydraulic fan system), which means your fan will no longer spin up, causing the engine to potentially overheat.

redfloyd

Yeah, the power steering drops in the reservoir. About a month ago, before I knew what the leak was, I drove about 40 miles w/ the A/C on, and near the end of the trip I heard a high-pitched whining from the engine compartment that was in tune w/ the engine changing gears, and I heard a weird crinkling hissing sound coming from the air vents in the cabin. Later, after parking it for a little while, I noticed a 6" puddle under the passenger side of the engine compartment, and I looked at the fluid levels of various things (hadn't done this in a while), and noticed the power steering was seriously low. I bought the Dex/Merc, filled up the reservoir, and after driving it, noticed the whining was gone, and the hissing was reduced. That's when I took it to the shop, and they confirmed it was the power steering.

Ahhh, so the fan is electrically controlled, and it's really only POWERED by the power steering fluid? I thought it was synced w/ the engine's rotation. Again, I'm still learning about cars, but I remember reading that electric fans have been common for a while, and old-school cars had fans that ran at the same speed as the engine, and I kept wondering why the ES had a mechanical one as late as '96.

Did the Camrys of this era have the same system or no? Did they change it with the introduction of the '97 ES?

LeX2K

Camry used the same system from 1992-1995 (or -1996 not sure). I believe the LS400 was first to use this system (for Toyota/Lexus at least) in 1989, possibly earlier for JDM models. The fan is not dependent on engine speed, only engine temperature. It is an electro-hydraulic system, the electronics regulate the amount of fluid going to the fan, so yes the fan is powered by PS fluid.

The 1997 ES moved to an electric fan (two of them). They are nice and quiet but not as quiet as the hydraulic system, which is the only reason I can see that Toyota/Lexus went with such a system, it is needlessly complex.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

They switched to electric fans with the 97-01 ES. That's as much as I know...

edit: beat me to it

redfloyd

Maybe they also figured that since power steering is generally a small drain on your fuel efficiency most of the time (you're not steering all the time), that they'd put the constantly pumping fluid to work doing something else too.

Also, it just occurred to me: what if the previous owner filled my car up with normal power steering fluid, and that's the cause of the problems I'm having now? I remember seeing a thread earlier that I can't find now that listed what happened when you didn't use ATF (something about creaking and corrosion or something?).

LeX2K

I've heard the same thing, that the wrong fluid will cause the seals to degrade. It really depends how long the fluid has been in use.

redfloyd

So, if it turns out I'll have to replace a couple parts, does anyone have recommendations for aftermarket brands they trust? Or am I taking a risk regardless of whatever I buy that isn't OEM? I've never bought aftermarket parts for a car (well, except for a cabin air filter. Big risk there, lol)

Edit: also, would OEM power steering parts meant for the same generation Toyota Camry be compatible w/ this ES?

KLF

You'll want to get any PS fluid out of the system ASAP. Toyota uses vane pumps that are not intended for the clear PS fluid only, ATF ONLY.

Earlier this year Midas did an oil change on my daughter's '08 Corolla, and the next day the filter popped off the engine on the highway, by the time she got it over to the side of the road it was too late, the engine was ruined. They put a new engine in, but somebody put standard PS fluid in the system. The pump lasted about 3 months and started groaning. Pump is ruined now, I'm still fighting with them to get it replaced.

redfloyd

KLF, so Toyota's cars still use ATF for power steering? (All of them / most of them / some of them?) You'd think car techs would be familiar with this by now, and not screw up by putting regular power steering in there.

edit:
Forgot to mention, I saw this thread earlier, where user yeldogt says regular power steering fluid is basically Dexron w/out the red dye and add'l modifiers:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...uid-drain.html

True / not true? Confusing.

edit 2:
long discussion about fluid types on a Tundra forum. I'm afraid it won't clear up the confusion much, but might be interesting to some:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...teering-fluid/