SW17LS

The HS wasn't a bad car I agree, they just never clicked with US buyers. I think the issue was they were really expensive optioned up (like, $50k), but they had a lot of options and features that you don't see elsewhere in the lineup like you said. I think the other issue was styling, I always thought the HS looked a lot like the first gen Prius, a little awkward as a sedan. The spindle grill refresh makes it look a lot better, of course that came after the HS was dropped in the US:



In Japan the HS is a great seller.

Trexus

The HS is a great car for what it is. The HS is much larger than and has more power than the CT. I've driven the HS numerous times. A loaded HS has pretty much everything as well. I love the heads up display and front surround camera, I wish my CT had the HUD and front camera. The price of a loaded HS 250h wasn't an issue with me. The HS now has the spindle grill and Lexus should bring the HS back to the states...



I was just about to purchase an HS 250h back in 2011 but decided to go with the CT since it was completely new to the scene. I purchased a loaded CT and love it. My CT has the radar cruise control, pre-collision system, full LED headlights, leather, illuminated door sills, etc...

SW17LS

The HS doesn't have a place in the lineup anymore. They have the ESh, and the CT. People who want a sedan hybrid can get into the ESh for similar money.

BinaryJay

I think the problem with the HS was that it was just too similar to a corolla. It didn't look unique like a Lexus really (personally I think Spindle is Lexus over correcting this problem, the spindle is too much and in a lot of models I don't think it looks very good or classy at all). The main thing I think that would have propelled these cars would be to make them RWD... I just don't think people are in the market for FWD Lexus. A lot of folks just see FWD as inferior, or "common".

SW17LS

You do know that the two most popular Lexus models, that make up over 70-% of all Lexus sales are FWD right? The ES and the RX. The ES sells more than every other Lexus sedan combined.

FWD isn't the issue. Plenty of non-enthusiast buyers out there interested in FWD luxury cars. Even you were interested in a FWD CT.

ceads9

I was just throwing it out there in the KC area they run (HS) run from 20k to 28k with low miles and the the. CT run mid 20s to mid 30s . . If you want 40mpg from a lexus then do it (CT). , I was hoping that the new one would have changed a little more than a few things and no MPg change . I still look at the CT from a prius trade if the price is right .

I agree I. Like the New front end of the HS

Trexus

I believe there is more than plenty of room for the HS in the Lexus line-up. The HS 250h is a hybrid only and can be the entry level hybrid sedan model whereas the ES 300h is more of a mid-size level hybrid sedan and the LS 600h L is the full size hybrid sedan. The IS 300h is an entry level sport hybrid sedan and GS 450h is more of a mid-size level sport hybrid sedan.

I agree with SW13GS that most people buy a FWD Lexus. The ES is a FWD sedan and is the highest selling Lexus sedan of all time. It outsells the IS, GS and LS. The RX is also FWD and is the all time highest selling Lexus of all time.

HS 250h (Entry Level) Sold Outside of U.S.
IS 300h (Entry Level Sport) Sold Outside of U.S.
ES 300h (Mid Level)
GS 300h (Mid Level) Sold Outside of U.S.
GS 450h (Mid Level Sport)
LS 600h L (Full Size Level)

CT 200h (Entry Level Hatchback) CT is not a sedan

NX 300h (Entry Level)
RX 450h (Mid Level)

RC 300h (Entry Level Sport Coupe)
SC 450h (Mid Level Sport Coupe)

SW17LS

The HS didn't sell the first time it was offered in the US when the bigger and more mainstream looking ESh didn't exist, I don't see any realistic reason for them to bring it back now when they have a very successful hybrid sedan in that price bracket, and an entry level hybrid beneath it.

I'd rather see them offer the IS300h here than the HS. They tried the HS, and it failed. A new bumper isn't going to solve that.

spwolf

they will offer it for the same reason Audi offers A3 Sedan - to get sales at $33k starting point.

Not to mention that CT Sedan would do wonders in Europe and Japan, where ES does not sell (mostly) and China as well.

Recently Lexus Europe said that 60% of luxury brand sales in Europe happens below 40k Euros... thats actually bellow NX pricing! So in the area where Lexus only has CT200h, other brands sell 60% of their volume right now.

Trexus

I think Lexus should bring the HS 250h and IS 300h to the U.S. to increase their hybrid dominance and awareness. Lexus should lower the price point of the HS to position it below the ES 300h as well as lowering the price point of the IS 300h to position it below the IS 250.

With increasing variants to the IS line maybe Lexus could outsell the ES line.

IS 300h
IS 250
IS 250 awd
IS 350
IS 350 awd
IS 250C
IS 250C awd
IS 350C
IS 350C awd
IS F

spwolf

whats the goal, phase out ES at any cost? :-)

I mean why would IS300h be under IS250 when ES300h costs more than ES350.

On the other hand I bet if they offered:
ES200t
ES200t AWD
ES300h
ES300h AWD
ES350
ES350 AWD

ES would likely go up in sales significantly.

SW17LS

Guys...they're not going to bring the HS back LOL. We may as well stop talking about it. They stopped selling the car here because it didn't sell...they're not going to bring it back and try again.

Trexus

The ES line does well enough on it's own worldwide:

ES 250 (Sold Outside U.S.)
ES 300h
ES 350

I remember reading that Lexus will offer F Sport versions of the ES in the near future...

I don't think Lexus will phase out the ES since it is the highest selling sedan...

rtwamski

Lexus came out with a statement saying if you didn't have the $32,500 for a CT then you can't afford a Lexus, and they will not change that. They don't care to compete with the CLA and A3. A low end sedan that isn't worth them money until you add higher trim packages defeats the point of having a sub $30k car anyways. If you like a Lexus and don't want to pay market price wait a few years and buy CPO. Its also really easy to wait a few years when you already have a Lexus/Toyota, they will survive the wait time. Love my CT and don't think I will buy another car other than Lexus.

BinaryJay

I'm at a dealer now. You guys were right the trunk is a joke in person. I also don't think there would be any way for me to drive it with a car seat behind me. Too bad I think it's quite nice for a small car otherwise.