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Old 03-28-12, 10:28 AM   #1
elmo112
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Default Dealer invoice increased?

Is it possible that the dealer invoice price increased due to the increase in gas prices? I went to the dealer last night and he told me the dealer invoice increased. On KBB the dealer invoice is $34,439, but he told me it was $35,181.
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Old 03-28-12, 01:58 PM   #2
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Maybe they added some "accessory package" like they did to mine. For me it was the floor mats, cargo mat, cargo net and the leather key fob covers which added 200+ onto my invoice price.
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Old 03-28-12, 04:55 PM   #3
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Nope it's from the manufacurer!It really sucks! The price increase was actually one of the motivators to get mine now instead of waiting any longer.The price increase is 3% above the old invoice price.It is far worse on the more expensive Lexus models .
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Old 03-28-12, 06:46 PM   #4
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A different dealership called me to see if I was still interested in the car today and confirmed the invoice price that was given to me by the dealership that I purchased the car from. Wells at least I don't feel cheated since two separate dealerships confirmed the new invoice price. Thanks everyone.
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Old 05-13-12, 05:12 PM   #5
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there is a reason why they call it a stealership
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Old 05-13-12, 07:34 PM   #6
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Alfred that's an unfair response to a thread w/o activity for almost two months don't you think? 1st of all, the dealership is a business that has to turn a profit. In the case of a new car it's generally somewhere between the dealers cost and the sticker. If a car is a good seller and a dealer insists on a figure close to that it's their business and good for them. If you can find the same car at a lower price then that's good for you but calling them a "stealership" because the car had a price increase is on the harsh side.

2nd, if you buy one, you want that dealer to be there for you if there is a problem. If they can't make a profit, how long do you think they'll keep their doors open and technicians in the service dept?

Just sayin

Now if it's a case of selling way over retail on popular models or loading it up with high profit showroom junk as mandatory to do business, then that's different and there are those that do that. It's up to the buyer to make the decision and write a check. If one pays too much w/o checking around then who's fault is that?
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there is a reason why they call it a stealership
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Old 05-30-12, 09:26 PM   #7
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Jim,

Im sorry if my view offended you in any way. It was not my intention to offend anyone on my views. I have been buying cars for a long time. Based on my experience, I have not met an honest dealership. I understand they are a business and have to turn a profit. But most of the time they do it in excess and in extremes.

Again I apologize if you believe that comment was unfair. I was just simple sharing my View and Opinion.
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Old 05-31-12, 08:54 AM   #8
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I'm curious as to whom "they" refers. I don't know anyone who calls his trusty, reliable, experienced and hardworking dealer a thief. Refusing to capitulate to a customer's unreasonable requests is not unethical or illegal in any respect. I think the OP is perhaps generalizing from insufficient data.
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Old 05-31-12, 02:50 PM   #9
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Default Never met an Honest Dealership ???

Alfred, you didn't offend me. Having retired from 18 years in the retail end of the business (prior to going back to the U S Navy and retiring) I just think you've just shopped at the wrong dealers and you're misinformed. But I have a question because you claim you've not met an honest dealership. What would you describe an 'honest' dealership to be? Bear in mind they can not remain in business if they take nothing but losses on every deal. And I'm sure after your purchase you want them to remain financially healthy and there for you when you need service. Are there some dealers that are less than ethical in their dealings, yes of course just as there are customers that are less than ethical. Is it all or most of them? No, but one bad experience can taint an impression. Would you care to support your claims by saying how many cars you bought, were you trading, were you lied to (can you prove it), and did you buy from the same dealer again?

If you were a dealer, what would you do different to stay in business (by insuring profitability) and generate repeat business? How much should a dealer make? Would it surprise you that a large Lexus store probably has to crack a nut in excess of $10,000 a day just to turn the key and open? Where will he get that money? There are salary's, commissions, all kinds of loan payments, and interest payments on probably a couple of million dollars of inventory. Then he has to make a profit. All that was very simplified but you get the idea.

It's understandable no one likes to hear they paid more for a car then a friend or neighbor that bought the same car. But if he did, whose fault is it? And I'm thinking of a funny scenario, people will brag about how much they paid for their house but lie about the deal they got for their car.

It's a funny business and lots of times (after a dealer see's the customers financial statement) a good sales person actually tries to guide the customer to an affordable model let's say for talking points a base CT. More times than you can guess, the customer's pride kicks in especially if his family is there and he picks the highest trim and features level. If down the road finances are tight and payments of 50 to a hundred dollars a month less would have left the customer more comfortable the customer wants to blame someone. Who do you think will get the blame ??? Probably not himself.

The internet has entered a whole new way to shop for cars and is good both for the dealer (as he gets more inquires than ever) and the customer who is free to shop from his home with as many dealers as he thinks he needs to. And a knowledgeable customer can always shop a particular dealer re: the reputation of that dealer and join a buying club if he feels he isn't able to be a good negotiator.

Just be a wise and informed customer and know your limitations. Buying can and should be fun and I think most of the folks here understand that.

I hope you understand

Side note: I was never a dealer but worked my way through sales into management and followed what was hot in the Atlanta market. I always kept a customer data base and always informed them when I moved. Even I was surprised by the extraordinary number of customers that followed me, a few as many as three separate marque's. One place I tried and was totally unsuccessful was the largest Cadillac dealer in the area. That was when I learned I couldn't sell a product I didn't believe in. I bombed and left before I got fired. I started in 1970 and retired in 1988 after cycling from Lincoln Mercury, Porsche and Audi, Nissan, short term with Cadillac, leasing business, and finally with Acura (in that order) and retired on the last week of my 18th year and returned to the Navy for and additional 16 years of active duty and retirement. After my Porsche and Audi period (8 years two dealers), I had standing offers at almost any dealer in the metro area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FNFZ4 View Post
Jim,

Im sorry if my view offended you in any way. It was not my intention to offend anyone on my views. I have been buying cars for a long time. Based on my experience, I have not met an honest dealership. I understand they are a business and have to turn a profit. But most of the time they do it in excess and in extremes.

Again I apologize if you believe that comment was unfair. I was just simple sharing my View and Opinion.
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Last edited by Cruiter; 05-31-12 at 03:19 PM.. Reason: correction
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Old 05-31-12, 07:08 PM   #10
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I paid $37K even for a CT premium signed, sealed and delivered in Owings Millls Md and believe I received a relatively good deal.
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Old 05-31-12, 07:10 PM   #11
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Jim,

In my 65 years of life I have been lied to by more car sales reps than I can count. * I've done the new car purchase thing over 25 times. The only one I can say didn't lie was a Ford salesman. *I bought a car from him 5 consecutive years. I think I intimidated him. *

My recent Lexus CT purchase started with us looking for a Toyota Prius replacement. I can tell you that I visited or talked to over a dozen dealers combined, between Toyota and Lexus. The vast majority lied to us at least once. *I drove 90 minutes to a dealer who claimed he had exactly what I wanted on his lot. It was a lie just to get us there. *

The recent Lexus purchase was negotiated at a discount off invoice price via USAA. *Price was to be between $500 -$1,000 below invoice. When the deal was presented to me it was inflated which was verified once I was able to actually see the invoice. Also I was told he had a CT with beige leather in stock. *That was BS since Lexus does not make a beige leather for the CT, the leather only comes in Black or Gray. *

My brother was director of Fleet operations for a very large operation with dozens of stores with Honda, Oldmobile, Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, *Buick, Toyota, GMC, Mazda, Suzuki, Scion and Fiat. *He always said the car salesman he worked with all lie. This was also at the very top of the organization as FBI has confirmed due to indictments and convictions.*

I was in Service Managment for 38 years working for a Fortune 500 company. *I could not believe the lies that some sales people told to get a sale. *Unfortunatly these are the reps who seemed to be the most successful. *

I feel so much better now..
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Old 05-31-12, 08:27 PM   #12
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Well like I said, I left the business in 1988. I only worked for dealers where I could be backed up. I still know who to go and talk to and get a fair shake. I do go to Toyota for basic service but that's just me trying not to get robbed. The dealers don't hold that against me, they just respect the reason I do.

Sorry for what you've gone through, shouldn't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jroussos View Post
Jim,

In my 65 years of life I have been lied to by more car sales reps than I can count. * I've done the new car purchase thing over 25 times. The only one I can say didn't lie was a Ford salesman. *I bought a car from him 5 consecutive years. I think I intimidated him. *

My recent Lexus CT purchase started with us looking for a Toyota Prius replacement. I can tell you that I visited or talked to over a dozen dealers combined, between Toyota and Lexus. The vast majority lied to us at least once. *I drove 90 minutes to a dealer who claimed he had exactly what I wanted on his lot. It was a lie just to get us there. *

The recent Lexus purchase was negotiated at a discount off invoice price via USAA. *Price was to be between $500 -$1,000 below invoice. When the deal was presented to me it was inflated which was verified once I was able to actually see the invoice. Also I was told he had a CT with beige leather in stock. *That was BS since Lexus does not make a beige leather for the CT, the leather only comes in Black or Gray. *

My brother was director of Fleet operations for a very large operation with dozens of stores with Honda, Oldmobile, Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, *Buick, Toyota, GMC, Mazda, Suzuki, Scion and Fiat. *He always said the car salesman he worked with all lie. This was also at the very top of the organization as FBI has confirmed due to indictments and convictions.*

I was in Service Managment for 38 years working for a Fortune 500 company. *I could not believe the lies that some sales people told to get a sale. *Unfortunatly these are the reps who seemed to be the most successful. *

I feel so much better now..
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Old 06-01-12, 01:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruiter View Post
Well like I said, I left the business in 1988. I only worked for dealers where I could be backed up. I still know who to go and talk to and get a fair shake. I do go to Toyota for basic service but that's just me trying not to get robbed. The dealers don't hold that against me, they just respect the reason I do.

Sorry for what you've gone through, shouldn't happen.
Cruiter, I fully agree with you. I also think the consumer is responsible for doing his/her homework to ensure the get the best possible deal. I had a great experience with my last Nissan salesman (Mr. Frost) and dealer and it took only an hour to complete the deal, before that I visited 3 Nissan (don Williamson Nissan) dealers and it was a bad experience with bad consumer support and lies. I did my homework prior to buying and also tested the honesty of the salesman at every dealer. My Lexus experience was great. I completed the deal from Afghanistan. I told the salesman from the beginning what I wanted and that I did not like surprises. Maybe I could have gotten a better deal but at the end I save over 200 from the invoice. No doubt in the future I will consider buying a car from the same dealers. At the end business is business and it's easy with all the technology to conduct research and get an idea on what things are worth.
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Old 06-03-12, 10:10 AM   #14
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were you trading, were you lied to (can you prove it), and did you buy from the same dealer again?

Well I guess things are different in Atlanta than in Los Angeles.

Jim to answer your question here all all the cars I have bought in Order:

2008 Honda Civic Coupe MSRP 17560.. didnt even negotiated. by the time we got to the finance manager, There were tons of add ons which put the car to 20095 excluding taxes and licenses. They Explained that this particular car had these add ons put on by the manufacturer. I almost walked out of the deal until they said that they will remove it. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN.

2005 Honda Odyssey used from Honda dealership CPO. $15991. Didnt even negotiated. Traded in 2008 Civic and trade in value was 12k. They added on the same thing... GAP. Honda Care Bra this and that. I let them because I knew I would not get approve for that amount. Total out the door was 22000 plus. They called me after a week and said they could not get it approved and they wanted a bigger down payment. I told them its all good ill just return the car. they came back with just come in and we will lower the price of the car. so i came in and they lowered the price to 12200. but I still have to buy the gap and the extended warranty. By this time I did my research so I agreed. after a week i called and cancelled the GAP and the Honda Care which was deducted from my loan. I got smarter and read the fine prints on cancellation. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN.

Audi A3 Advertised as CPO. when I got to the dealership I said Ill take it. we were doing paper work. then I noticed where is the CPO stuff? they said it was not CPO. I talked tot he manager and showed him the add online on their website that said CPO. They said they can CPO it for 1600 more. I walked away... then they came after me and they said they will do it for free. so I bought the car. But it turn out after 5 months and 6 transmissions that it was a lemon. so it was bought back.. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN OR NEVER WILL I BUY AN AUDI EVER!

BMW M3 This one is short... MSRP was 58000 and some change. They wanted 65000 because they said it had special this, special that.... so I said do you have any white color ones without the special. they said no. so i walked away. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

BMW Z4- saw an add for a Z4 with a good price...when I got to the dealership they said the car was not available and they were offering me a similar one with thousands more. the usual bait and switch.. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

Mercedes C230- horrible.....they added this, that and the moon to the car. walked away

NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

the only good deal i had....

Honda Insight I offered 20500 we closed at 20700 plus TTL. Msrp 22010- not a bad deal. WILL BUY FROM THEM AGAIN FOR SURE...

Lexus CT200h MSRP 32625 I got it for 29000 plus TTL. they emailed me a price of 28000-29000 for the model when i got their they were selling it to me for 31800. then I showed them their email quoting me for a premium model at 28000-29000. They said the sales man who quoted that price made a mistake. They cant give it at 28000. I offered 28500 they said they can only do 29000 which is a loosing deal for them. I really dont think it was a loosing deal. I dont believe dealers would sell a car for a loss. but 29000 for a basic premium is the cheapest I found. the closest to it was 29800 plus TTL so i saved another 800. and they were 29000 take it or leave it kind of attitude. I didnt mind I was getting 3625 off MSRP. Will I buy from them again? I dont know but its not looking good. Maybe... if I get the same deals.
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Old 06-04-12, 10:12 AM   #15
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If you read through all the forums here you'll find isolated incidents of bad treatment from time to time. But for one person to have had as many as you've indicated, I just don't know what to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FNFZ4 View Post
were you trading, were you lied to (can you prove it), and did you buy from the same dealer again?

Well I guess things are different in Atlanta than in Los Angeles.

Jim to answer your question here all all the cars I have bought in Order:

2008 Honda Civic Coupe MSRP 17560.. didnt even negotiated. by the time we got to the finance manager, There were tons of add ons which put the car to 20095 excluding taxes and licenses. They Explained that this particular car had these add ons put on by the manufacturer. I almost walked out of the deal until they said that they will remove it. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN.

2005 Honda Odyssey used from Honda dealership CPO. $15991. Didnt even negotiated. Traded in 2008 Civic and trade in value was 12k. They added on the same thing... GAP. Honda Care Bra this and that. I let them because I knew I would not get approve for that amount. Total out the door was 22000 plus. They called me after a week and said they could not get it approved and they wanted a bigger down payment. I told them its all good ill just return the car. they came back with just come in and we will lower the price of the car. so i came in and they lowered the price to 12200. but I still have to buy the gap and the extended warranty. By this time I did my research so I agreed. after a week i called and cancelled the GAP and the Honda Care which was deducted from my loan. I got smarter and read the fine prints on cancellation. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN.

Audi A3 Advertised as CPO. when I got to the dealership I said Ill take it. we were doing paper work. then I noticed where is the CPO stuff? they said it was not CPO. I talked tot he manager and showed him the add online on their website that said CPO. They said they can CPO it for 1600 more. I walked away... then they came after me and they said they will do it for free. so I bought the car. But it turn out after 5 months and 6 transmissions that it was a lemon. so it was bought back.. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN OR NEVER WILL I BUY AN AUDI EVER!

BMW M3 This one is short... MSRP was 58000 and some change. They wanted 65000 because they said it had special this, special that.... so I said do you have any white color ones without the special. they said no. so i walked away. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

BMW Z4- saw an add for a Z4 with a good price...when I got to the dealership they said the car was not available and they were offering me a similar one with thousands more. the usual bait and switch.. NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

Mercedes C230- horrible.....they added this, that and the moon to the car. walked away

NEVER BOUGHT FROM THEM AGAIN

the only good deal i had....

Honda Insight I offered 20500 we closed at 20700 plus TTL. Msrp 22010- not a bad deal. WILL BUY FROM THEM AGAIN FOR SURE...

Lexus CT200h MSRP 32625 I got it for 29000 plus TTL. they emailed me a price of 28000-29000 for the model when i got their they were selling it to me for 31800. then I showed them their email quoting me for a premium model at 28000-29000. They said the sales man who quoted that price made a mistake. They cant give it at 28000. I offered 28500 they said they can only do 29000 which is a loosing deal for them. I really dont think it was a loosing deal. I dont believe dealers would sell a car for a loss. but 29000 for a basic premium is the cheapest I found. the closest to it was 29800 plus TTL so i saved another 800. and they were 29000 take it or leave it kind of attitude. I didnt mind I was getting 3625 off MSRP. Will I buy from them again? I dont know but its not looking good. Maybe... if I get the same deals.
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Old 06-04-12, 10:12 AM
 
 
 
 
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