SLegacy99

I guess I still don't get the point of the HS if the CT exists. Perhaps it would serve better as a Toyota?

JessePS

HS = Toyota Sai.

Who knows we might see the HS go bye bye in 3-6 years. Seeing they did kill off the IS Wagon years back.

TRDFantasy

I too am concerned and curious about how the HS will do when the CT will be sold alongside it. Japan is getting the CT as well, so you have to wonder how well the HS will continue selling in Japan.

Either the HS will become more differentiated from the CT and the other Lexus sedans, or Lexus could potentially kill off the model.

SLegacy99

Which is what I was thinking, but why go through the hassle and hub bub to only have the HS short term?

TRDFantasy

Hopefully the IS and ES become further differentiated from the HS, and the HS itself becomes further differentiated from the IS, ES, and CT.

It's a good thing the CT is a hatch, which differentiates it from the HS. It's also a good thing the ES is not sold in Japan, while the ES and HS are not sold in Europe.

It will be interesting to see what Lexus does, and how differentiated the next-gen ES, IS will be.

(Cj)

The HS should continue to do fine in Japan once the CT is launched. With the incentives they have for hybrids there, the more options the better. In the US on the other hand, the HS has been out for almost a year and has never really caught on with the general car buyer.

A nicer looking, sportier, roomier CT that's cheaper could be the nail in the coffin for HS sales here in the US.

I'm not sure if Lexus should kill the HS because then resales would be horrific for current owners and that could affect the whole brand. Lexus could improve the HS and further differentiate from the CT, but if they start improving the HS then they're going to have to move the ES up too so that the HS and ES don't overlap too much (and they already overlap way too much for my liking as it is...).

TRDFantasy

This is a uniquely US problem that Lexus faces, having the CT, HS, and ES all sold in the same market.

I agree killing off the HS would be bad for several reasons, but leaving things as-is is not ideal either.

The HS really does need greater differentiation from the ES and to an extent the CT. I feel the IS has decent differentiation, and will likely be more differentiated with the next-gen model.

The ES needs to be further differentiated like you say, but then as a result of that the GS equally needs to be more differentiated from the ES. Then again, the GS needed greater differentiation since the 4ES debuted .

All in all, it will be very interesting to see how the CT, HS, and ES do being sold all in the same market.

This only further raises interest and curiosity about the next-gen ES, IS, and GS. Lexus needs to keep them clearly differentiated, appealing to different segments and niches of the market. They also need to keep a family resemblance among the cars, while keeping each car unique and competitive.

Lexus has a very fine line they need to walk, and expectations are high for the next-gen ES, IS, and especially the next-gen GS.

spwolf

Lexus/Toyota can not produce enough HS's... there is still an waiting list in Japan.

Also... CT is an smaller hatchback while HS is larger sedan on larger wheelbase. Those cars do not compete.

SLegacy99

This is the second time this week that you have made this statement. The HS has been on sale for 7 months. Saying that it hasnt caught on is premature.

(Cj)

Agreed the next gen products are crucial for Lexus moving forward, but there will be a few months (up to a year or 2 actually) that we will have this lineup, with everything clashing and overlapping.

(Cj)

Conversely, 7 months is a long time when judging consumer's initial response to a model. The initial response to the HS has been weak at best here in the US, and most dealers would agree on that point.

TRDFantasy

That is understandable of course. Even BMW and Benz sometimes suffer from overlap when certain models are being redesigned.

spwolf

again, i dont know why do you think that CT and HS overlap? They do not... in Europe, they are two distinctively different classes of car - C and D segment. Like GTI and Passat for instance.

As to the HS and ES, HS is sportier, smaller and hybrid while ES is take it easy, larger car. They overlap as much as ES and GS do.

(Cj)

Yeah, just like how the current A4 is a better car than the A6. It's almost the same size, it's almost as fast, and it's more fuel efficient.

(Cj)

Well the HS is already struggling so that's why the CT might steal even more sales and kill the model further. The CT and HS are pretty much going for the same buyer. Young fuel/eco conscious buyers that want more luxury than a Prius. That's why they overlap. The GTI and Passat go for completely different buyers.

The HS and ES overlap because they are the same price and they are both midsize entry level luxury sedans. Both are not for performance buyers and they both supposedly compete with the A4 and C class.

The ES and GS overlap because they are the same size. Most people buy the ES over the GS because it's $10K less.