Motor Trend: Giulia vs. 330i vs. A4 vs. C300 vs. ATS vs. XE vs. IS vs. Q50 vs. S60 - Page 4 - Club Lexus Forums


Motor Trend: Giulia vs. 330i vs. A4 vs. C300 vs. ATS vs. XE vs. IS vs. Q50 vs. S60

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Old 03-16-17, 09:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
so in summary, another worthless 'magazine' comparison, written and judged by bored automotive writers who don't actually have to own and live with their choices.
this exactly

the other thing nobody has mentioned in this thread but plenty have pointed out in MT comments is that the IS, XE & Q50 can all be had with a V6 in the same price range as the other vehicles 4 bangers. heck, to get a V6 alfa you have to spend $80K. this whole article was worthless joke.
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Old 03-16-17, 11:41 AM   #47
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I just watched a video from CR that features three editors Talking Cars (I think that's the name). They bought an AR Giulia for testing and it's been in the shop three time already. Nothing major I guess but worth noting....One guy said he hasn't had much time behind the wheel yet due to it being in the shop.
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Old 03-16-17, 07:03 PM   #48
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I think "compact" sedan is all relative these days. I came out of a store today and my A4 was parked next to an A6 that was a couple of years old. They were so similar in size/shape/headlights/grill, and both had the S-Line badging on the side. The windows were tinted so I couldn't get a good look inside the car except to see the horizontal dash layout. I literally had to walk to the back of the car to see the A6 badge to confirm it wasn't an A4. They were that close in size. I also find the back seats in my A4 pretty spacious. Every model change the cars keep getting bigger. Today's "compact" is yesterday's "mid-size". I mean, look at the '17 A4 on the left and the '15 A6 on the right.
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Motor Trend: Giulia vs. 330i vs. A4 vs. C300 vs. ATS vs. XE vs. IS vs. Q50 vs. S60-2017-audi-a4-17.jpg   Motor Trend: Giulia vs. 330i vs. A4 vs. C300 vs. ATS vs. XE vs. IS vs. Q50 vs. S60-2015-audi-a6-facelift-front-quarter2.jpg  

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Old 03-16-17, 07:06 PM   #49
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Like any in-market consumer, we looked at the whole picture, including price, depreciation, reliability, dealer experience, safety, infotainment features, and cargo- and passenger-carrying capacity. But given the nature of this category, subjective criteria also come into play, so things such as styling, brand image, overall appeal, and driving enjoyment are major factors in this test.
I wonder how each category was rated? I am guessing too, they were using survey data or educated guesses on the "dealer experience" piece?

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The IS200T got an overly fair review regardless of sponsor or not. This car is not for an enthusiast, the gearing/throttle response is horrible; the one aspect of the car that makes me regret not getting the 350. If i was doing this review, this aspect alone would make me put the IS200T dead last. Nothing else matters more to me than the driving dynamics and with the horrible lag with this turbo, the thrill of driving this car is greatly diminished for someone that drives aggressively.
Does this change if you get the 300/350? I find the 300 still surprises me when I drive it hard even after 6 months because, let's be honest, it's a very unremarkable drive for grocery-getting and the like, which lulls me into forgetting it actually handles well.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:24 AM   #50
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So if this win was "bought" by Alfa Romeo, I have to wonder what they think of this follow on MT article.

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So it was with considerable glee when newly minted assistant road test editor Erick Ayapana tossed me the keys to the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio—on a Friday afternoon, no less.
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As I coasted to a stop at the light, the Alfa’s stop/start system shut the engine off and simply never came back on, no matter what I tried—or how loud the cars behind me honked. I was stranded, and FCA’s roadside-assistance operators, kind and professional as they were, couldn’t help.
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Moral of this story? Well, if you’re of the eye-rolling “Italian reliability” sensibility, that is understandable, but this is a data set of one. The base Giulia we had in The Big Test never missed a beat. If you’re still on the fence, do as our Big Test suggests and lease first. But no matter what, get AAA.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/alfa-...he-half-irish/
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Old 03-18-17, 01:06 PM   #51
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I don't put much faith in comparo's anymore. They seem to be way too complicated and the results are almost always the same thing time after time. They also seem overly complicated to read and follow. The car makers love these magazines as its instant exposure and cheap advertising in that all they have to do is provide a loaner to the publication. I also highly doubt there are many car buyers who are truly influenced by these magazines, I say that because if that was the case, they the car makers would pull their cars from the publications due to a loss of sales. Also, what does one really expect a publication to do if there was a brand new car from a new brand on horizon? Of course a #1 finish is going to happen as that means a possible new revenue stream for advertising. Lastly, I would actually prefer the publications to not "rank" their findings in any way, I would rather see their thoughts written out and then let the reader come to their own conclusion. I did not waste my time reading this article.
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Old 03-18-17, 01:33 PM   #52
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I don't put much faith in comparo's anymore. They seem to be way too complicated and the results are almost always the same thing time after time. They also seem overly complicated to read and follow.
Except for those done in the Consumer publications, most of the comparos are done from the somewhat sporting point of view of the magazine's staff. They end to emphasize responsiveness to the throttle, steering, and brakes.


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The car makers love these magazines as its instant exposure and cheap advertising in that all they have to do is provide a loaner to the publication.
Those loaners are (sometimes) tweaked from regular production vehicles to try and impress the magazine's staff. The most famous example, of course, was Car & Driver admitting that they got duped on the GM X-body cars (which turned out to be some of the most poorly-assembled and recall-ridden American vehicles in history). That happens less now than it did decades ago, simply because the magazines and the public are more wise to it now....but it still occasionally pops up.



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I also highly doubt there are many car buyers who are truly influenced by these magazines,

Of course a #1 finish is going to happen as that means a possible new revenue stream for advertising.
I think you're talking at odds here. If, as you say, a magazine test makes little difference to the average car buyer, then why would the automakers want to dump money into ads in the magazines? IMO, it doesn't make sense.


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Lastly, I would actually prefer the publications to not "rank" their findings in any way, I would rather see their thoughts written out and then let the reader come to their own conclusion.
That's basically what I do in my own reviews. I list the vehicle's main U.S-market competitors, list what IMO are the vehicle's Plusses and Minuses, give a short verdict, and let the reader decide for himself or herself is it is the vehicle for them.

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I did not waste my time reading this article.
I understand your feelings, but it's usually good to read something before commenting on it.
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Old 03-18-17, 01:51 PM   #53
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Yeah I wouldn't call any of these cars 'compact'. They are 'small' now. CLA, A3.. those are compact for sure.
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Old 03-19-17, 08:18 PM   #54
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I wonder how each category was rated? I am guessing too, they were using survey data or educated guesses on the "dealer experience" piece?



Does this change if you get the 300/350? I find the 300 still surprises me when I drive it hard even after 6 months because, let's be honest, it's a very unremarkable drive for grocery-getting and the like, which lulls me into forgetting it actually handles well.

Indeed it would, there's no need for the 300 in Miami, the 350 is what i would get, knowing what i know now. Firstly, the is200t is not good on fuel, there really is nothing special about the motor. Lexus tuned this thing haphazardly so as not to make it too competitive to the 350. The turbo lag is very dangerous especially with the traffic that is present in Miami on weekdays.


The car has enough power for the daily commute, the issue is the huge turbo lag when you need to make a quick pass or get out the path of a tractor trailer. It is scary to drive this thing fast. When i was test driving the car, the first sales guy told me, i was driving too fast and i don't yet own the car. I was not even going over 50. Needless to say, i drove to south Miami to another dealer the same day to do business. Sales man at that dealership let me drove how i chose; however, with the traffic in Miami, there's only so much feel one can get from test driving a new car.
I leased this thing and will upgrade to a GSF next most likely. Lexus turbo's are not for me, lesson learned.
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Old 03-20-17, 05:01 AM   #55
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Yeah I wouldn't call any of these cars 'compact'. They are 'small' now. CLA, A3.. those are compact for sure.
life is too short to own a compact car. unless you live in a cramped city or drive into one a lot.
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Old 03-20-17, 12:46 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Indeed it would, there's no need for the 300 in Miami, the 350 is what i would get, knowing what i know now. Firstly, the is200t is not good on fuel, there really is nothing special about the motor. Lexus tuned this thing haphazardly so as not to make it too competitive to the 350. The turbo lag is very dangerous especially with the traffic that is present in Miami on weekdays.


The car has enough power for the daily commute, the issue is the huge turbo lag when you need to make a quick pass or get out the path of a tractor trailer. It is scary to drive this thing fast. When i was test driving the car, the first sales guy told me, i was driving too fast and i don't yet own the car. I was not even going over 50. Needless to say, i drove to south Miami to another dealer the same day to do business. Sales man at that dealership let me drove how i chose; however, with the traffic in Miami, there's only so much feel one can get from test driving a new car.
I leased this thing and will upgrade to a GSF next most likely. Lexus turbo's are not for me, lesson learned.
+1, even here in KC, with a decent set of winter tires, I think I'd be fine with a RWD 350. Even then I wonder if the 350 AWD would be a worth-it upgrade...

Bummer about the turbo lag. I was skeptical about the turbo - on top of that the 300 still being a 3.5L V6 as well as having AWD kinda made it the obvious choice between the two. So anyway, I guess this means yes, the 300/350 would be much more engaging than the 200t mostly because of the turbo lag and the lack of power.
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Old 03-20-17, 03:56 PM   #57
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I rather like these kinds of evaluations where the costs are comparable. By contrast, articles that compare a $70K Vette with a $180K Porsche are absurd.

If the cars in the article are leased then we don't worry so much about repair costs, other than the hassle of taking the car in for repairs. But if the rules are changed and we want to buy and hold then I would think a reliable Lexus is a far better choice than the Alfa.

And I'm glad they knocked the Lexus "polarizing styling." Maybe senior management will go "oops" and make a midcourse correction.
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Old 03-20-17, 05:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
life is too short to own a compact car.
In some cases, I agree with you LOL.

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Old 03-21-17, 07:56 PM   #59
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In some cases, I agree with you LOL.

Those are fun with a motor swap. That is if it doesn't succeed in killing you first lol Not a very stable car with a ton of power in it.


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