Thoughts about cars ---- from the Canadian International Auto Show
02-23-17, 01:07 PM
#16
A few parting notes:
Only brand that did not separate their main brand from their luxury brand was Acura/Honda.
Toyota and Lexus were two booths apart
Lincoln Ford were apart
VW and Audi were on two different floors.
There was no Lexus LS460 on display which was odd.
Toyota and Lexus have clearly separated themselves from each other.
The majority of brands allowed you to interact with their infotainment screens. Toyota and Lexus were not one of them.
Biggest Takeaway: Engines, sizes, and power are less important that brand design and coherence.
Top 5 Surprises: Toyota Mirai, Jaguar XJ, Ford F350, Fiat Spyder, Buick Avenir
Top 5 Disappointments: Toyota Tacoma, Toyota Tundra, Genesis G80, No Lincoln Black Label, Acura
Only brand that did not separate their main brand from their luxury brand was Acura/Honda.
Toyota and Lexus were two booths apart
Lincoln Ford were apart
VW and Audi were on two different floors.
There was no Lexus LS460 on display which was odd.
Toyota and Lexus have clearly separated themselves from each other.
The majority of brands allowed you to interact with their infotainment screens. Toyota and Lexus were not one of them.
Biggest Takeaway: Engines, sizes, and power are less important that brand design and coherence.
Top 5 Surprises: Toyota Mirai, Jaguar XJ, Ford F350, Fiat Spyder, Buick Avenir
Top 5 Disappointments: Toyota Tacoma, Toyota Tundra, Genesis G80, No Lincoln Black Label, Acura
As to the LS. With the introduction of the LS500, they'll wind production down and phase the LS460 out. They likely just don't want to promote the older model hence the omission.
02-23-17, 01:12 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I could totally see what you mean. But, I guess different than Ford as they had the new Expedition on display but roped off while they also had the current Expedition to sit in as well.
02-23-17, 01:36 PM
#18
And I'm sure there's no right or wrong answer. Lexus could have brought the LS460. From a production standpoint, it's probably good to keep the old Expedition on display to show the public its still around. They'll be blowing these things out for awhile after the new model debuts, whereas there are fewer new LS460's on dealer lots to sell to begin with IMHO.
02-23-17, 01:49 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
And I'm sure there's no right or wrong answer. Lexus could have brought the LS460. From a production standpoint, it's probably good to keep the old Expedition on display to show the public its still around. They'll be blowing these things out for awhile after the new model debuts, whereas there are fewer new LS460's on dealer lots to sell to begin with IMHO.
02-23-17, 03:28 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Especially considering the length is longer that most of its target competitors in that segment. Interior space, plus the fact that features like panoramic sunroof, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, and a few others, and no V6, I think are turning away likely customers--even though priced competitively. I'm not sure about Pathfinder, but all other Japanese and Korean competitive vehicles offer these features at the top of the line.
02-23-17, 04:03 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
At one time, Mazda would have had an upscale Amati division (remember the Mazda Millennia sedan, with its Miller-cycle engine)? That car was originally developed to be sold as the first of a series of vehicles in the proposed Amati division. But Ford, who owned Mazda at the time, nixed the program due to cost concerns. So, the Millennia and Mazda 929 were sold out of the same Mazda showrooms until both were discontinued, and Mazda simply did without a real flagship sedan. Since then, like before, it's basically been more or less a niche-manufacturer for drivers with sporting or semi-sporting intentions.....somewhat like a lower-cost BMW. I wouldn't call it a true niche manufacturer because it is too large for that, but it clearly is not in the same class as Toyota, VW, GM, or Ford.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-23-17 at 04:06 PM.
02-23-17, 10:45 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
At one time, Mazda would have had an upscale Amati division (remember the Mazda Millennia sedan, with its Miller-cycle engine)? That car was originally developed to be sold as the first of a series of vehicles in the proposed Amati division. But Ford, who owned Mazda at the time, nixed the program due to cost concerns. So, the Millennia and Mazda 929 were sold out of the same Mazda showrooms until both were discontinued, and Mazda simply did without a real flagship sedan. Since then, like before, it's basically been more or less a niche-manufacturer for drivers with sporting or semi-sporting intentions.....somewhat like a lower-cost BMW. I wouldn't call it a true niche manufacturer because it is too large for that, but it clearly is not in the same class as Toyota, VW, GM, or Ford.
I don't think their pursuit of premium pricing is going to work for the CX.
02-23-17, 10:47 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
02-24-17, 12:32 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
As a small auto manufacturer, Mazda is teetering on the edge between viability and bankruptcy; being so small, it cannot compete with the big guys like Honda or Toyota. To avoid becoming irrelevant, it must find a niche market that will always buys its cars; Subaru has done that by branding itself as an all-weather type of vehicle. Mazda has chosen to become an "upscale" brand that is different (or at least perceived to be different) from the mass manufacturers; it must look and feel more premium than Honda or Toyota or Nissan for this branding to work.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, in selecting to be upscale, Mazda has selected form over function. The CX-9 was given a particularly wide, commanding centre console. That may be good, but in the CX-9, that wide console crowds into front seat legroom yet is not put to good use. Other auto manufacturers with a wide console make better use of the available space by offsetting the gearshift lever from the centreline, allowing cupholders to be placed alongside it. But Mazda did not do this; its gearshift lever takes up the full width of the console, wasting a lot of space, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, in selecting to be upscale, Mazda has selected form over function. The CX-9 was given a particularly wide, commanding centre console. That may be good, but in the CX-9, that wide console crowds into front seat legroom yet is not put to good use. Other auto manufacturers with a wide console make better use of the available space by offsetting the gearshift lever from the centreline, allowing cupholders to be placed alongside it. But Mazda did not do this; its gearshift lever takes up the full width of the console, wasting a lot of space, in my opinion.
02-24-17, 02:03 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
As a small auto manufacturer, Mazda is teetering on the edge between viability and bankruptcy; being so small, it cannot compete with the big guys like Honda or Toyota. To avoid becoming irrelevant, it must find a niche market that will always buys its cars; Subaru has done that by branding itself as an all-weather type of vehicle. Mazda has chosen to become an "upscale" brand that is different (or at least perceived to be different) from the mass manufacturers; it must look and feel more premium than Honda or Toyota or Nissan for this branding to work.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, in selecting to be upscale, Mazda has selected form over function. The CX-9 was given a particularly wide, commanding centre console. That may be good, but in the CX-9, that wide console crowds into front seat legroom yet is not put to good use. Other auto manufacturers with a wide console make better use of the available space by offsetting the gearshift lever from the centreline, allowing cupholders to be placed alongside it. But Mazda did not do this; its gearshift lever takes up the full width of the console, wasting a lot of space, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, in selecting to be upscale, Mazda has selected form over function. The CX-9 was given a particularly wide, commanding centre console. That may be good, but in the CX-9, that wide console crowds into front seat legroom yet is not put to good use. Other auto manufacturers with a wide console make better use of the available space by offsetting the gearshift lever from the centreline, allowing cupholders to be placed alongside it. But Mazda did not do this; its gearshift lever takes up the full width of the console, wasting a lot of space, in my opinion.
02-24-17, 06:06 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
I don't know about Canadian pricing, but US CX-9 pricing is extremely competitive. Grand Touring FWD for about $40k; Signature AWD for about $44k. That's $1000s less than Pilot and Highlander. Interior is much nicer than Pilot and Highlander, with real wood accents and upgraded leather in Signature. LED lighting at most trim levels; HUD standard on Signature and I think Grand Touring. Trade off is that there is no heated rear seats or steering wheel, no pano sunroof, no Apple Car Play/Android Auto, and limited (6-way) power seat adjustments.
02-24-17, 06:27 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
FYI, here's a couple of shots of that aforementioned CX-9 console. It is indeed rather wide. I like that matte-wood-trim ring around the edge, though.....looks like the real stuff. I also like the integrated door-pull below the door handle......all vehicles should have those, IMO (makes things a lot easier).
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-24-17 at 06:34 PM.
02-24-17, 07:35 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
FYI, here's a couple of shots of that aforementioned CX-9 console. It is indeed rather wide. I like that matte-wood-trim ring around the edge, though.....looks like the real stuff. I also like the integrated door-pull below the door handle......all vehicles should have those, IMO (makes things a lot easier).
02-24-17, 08:07 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
That's what I meant.....it doesn't seem to be fake, although some fake matte-wood trims can, in fact, look surprisingly good. I'm generally not a fan of the highly-polished and reflective wood trims, whether real or fake.
02-24-17, 10:05 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter