SW17LS

I don't think it's that at all, the companies are just trying to appeal to what they perceive their customers desires are.

mmarshall

Don't want to get too far off-topic, but I remember you mentioning a Miata test-drive right around the time I did my last Miata review a few months ago. So the guy you were with actually took one home? Congratulations.....you didn't mention that earlier (at least from what I remember). He also must be in at least fairly lithe or good shape......a Miata cockpit sits quite low, is rather cramped for large adults, is is generally not a place for the unfit to crawl in and out of several times a day.


Well, we can debate all day about who is considered young today, and who is old, and who "feels" young or old, but that doesn't necessarily determine where money is spent. Most people (though there are exceptions) probably reach their peak earning years (and, often car-spending years) in their 50s....usually the decade before retirement. (Note: I said in the decade BEFORE retirement....not IN retirement).


There is, however, at least some truth to the mid-life crisis theory of men from 45 to 55 being attracted to sports cars (or, like with one of my supervisors at the time, buying a restored 1968 Pontiac GTO convertible)...but, in general, it tends to be overblown.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

haha, young/old it's all relative and people at any age do not always want to feel younger than they are. i have zero interest in owning a porsche 911 turbo even if someone gave me one. awesome car, just not for me. i got a miata in my 40s but don't want one now.

interesting point. i do agree bmw softened its mainstream models to rebutt the debate about lexus being smoother, quieter... modern mainstream bmws are VERY quiet and smooth now. but what bmw did was clever because besides the softening, they broadened their range considerably from the old days of 3,5,6,7,8 to now 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,i3,i8,x1,x3,x5,x6... crazy...! mercedes did something similar, and audi has broadened their range too. maybe they suspected toyota was unlikely to give lexus the funding to compete on all those fronts.

UDel

LOL, I have felt the same way and noticed that over the years, I know so many who spend so much on cars they can't realistically afford, being middle class or slightly upper middle class and spending 70-80K or even over 50K on a vehicle in some cases just makes no sense to me especially when so many have money/debt issues and bad un predicted things can happen at any time. Same with their homes and going out to eat at pricey places/traveling all the time and running up huge tabs several times a week and the worst is a few have asked me to borrow money yet they refuse or don't want to give up their nice cars or unrealistic lavish lifestyle/spending habits despite money issues. Saving and planning for the future seem to be foreign words to many even though most are educated.

SW17LS

Hey you're talking to the 36 year old with an LS460, and they guy who bought an ES300 when he was 22 lol.

mmarshall

I felt the same way when I was young and in high-school/college.....I liked big American luxury cars in addition to the classic muscle cars of the age. Had a big Buick when I was 19, in a local community college....LOVED it. Unfortunately, just a few years later (mid-70s) started the eventual extinction of both....though at least some of muscle cars were to return between 2000 and 2010.

Which year ES300 did you own? I thought the 4Gen ES (which had both ES300 and 330 versions), except for some engine/transmission ECU quirks, was the best ES ever done...better than the 5 and 6Gen which followed it.

Diesel350

The competitors have been upgrading more frequently because all their turbo parts are outsourced from other companies. They are not building and designing turbo parts from the ground up like Lexus is doing.

mmarshall

I can remember when automotive turbos usually came from one of two sources, Mitsubishi and Garrett.....and when most superchargers came from Mcculloch. Mitsubishi, of course, sometimes played that up in their advertising....that they made the turbos for their own vehicles.

tjarado

I am guessing that I am the only female in this thread, but I bought my Lexus after driving several models over the years, owned by others, but driven much by me, and guess what?

I love the naturally aspirated, non-interference 350 engine.

I adore the smooth good looks of my 2016 UW RC F-sport.

I love it's quiet luxury, fit and finish, reliability, and, yes its performance.

Plus it handles quite nicely on SoFla dry roads. (Wet stuff TBD.)

I am no 'racer' but I drove and rally-raced mucho sports cars many years ago, and still I crack 100 on occasion.

And tru, twice I actually tried to open a BMW thinking it was my 1998 Toyo Camry 6cyl zip-about!

Soooo, boys... I LOVE the spindle grille, cause you KNOW it's a Lexus.

dseag2

No, LexusCTJill is also a female, and thanks for your input. You have nice car there.

SW17LS

Mine was a 2003. My aunt still drives it.

mmarshall

The only real issue with that car, and its 3.0L V6, is to keep the oil changed. That engine is not forgiving of extended oil change intervals. They sludge and gel up, sometimes requiring expensive repairs or even a new short-block. The engine/transmission ECU in some versions of that-generation ES also had some throttle-by-wire quirks that affected response at low speeds....a factory re-flash update was supposed to address it, but it don't know how much effectiveness, if any, it had. Other than that, those cars are virtually bulletproof....and, IMO, a pleasure to sit in and drive. Overall, I consider it the best ES version ever done.

SW17LS

I don't recall hearing of any engine sludge issues on the 4ES, that was an issue really on the 3 ES. There were some internal changes made to the engine with the introduction of the 4ES in 2002. But, oil changes have always been done, much less frequently now because she doesn't drive it much, synthetic oil and it has nearly 190,000 miles on it. Still runs great. It does have the finicky e-throttle.

It's a great car, but overall I liked my 2010 ES a lot more. It was a lot better looking IMHO, it drove better (still very smooth and quiet but a little more dynamic feeling, much more power), and it had some nice "Lexus" touches my 03 lacked, mostly a power tilt telescoping steering wheel.

The big plus for the 03 over the 10 was the interior which was much better. My 10 was the refresh 5ES which had a slightly better interior with additional wood trim, etc but overall the 4ES had the best ES interior from a material standpoint ever done I agree.

As a car though, gotta say the 2010 was an overall better car.

People give the ES a lot of crap, but if you want to buy into a well respected luxury brand, and you can only spend less than $50k, I'd much rather have an ES than a cramped, small 3 Series or C Class even if those cars are more proper premium platform cars.

mmarshall

The 4ES used the 3.0L from 2001-2003, when the new 3.3L was introduced for the 2004 model year.

The wood and leather, though, throughout the cabin of the 4ES, was just superb, as good or better, IMO, than what Jaguar was offering at twice the price....and that was in the days before Jag started converting to the high-tech look.

Although I don't care for the materials used on the 5ES and 6ES as much as on earlier models, you won't ever hear me give it crap. I've always had respect for its level of reliability, refinement, its widespread sales-appeal, the millions of satisfied owners, and the the Lexus customer service that goes with it. Being retired, I spend a fair amount of time at the local county fitness center/indoor pool, getting exercise with other retired folks....many of whom own or lease ES models (yeah, we talk cars a lot LOL). Virtually everyone who owns or leases an ES has been well-pleased, and some of them have well over 100K on them. In fact, due primarily to the fact that Buick uses that (IMO) awkward and annoying GM E-shfter and a non-defeatable idle-start/stop system on the new 2017 LaCrosse, and the fact that the 2017 Lincoln MKZ, while I like it, is not particularly well-built, the ES, currently, ranks above both as a consideration for my next car, though I have not ruled out the Buick or Lincoln.

EZZ

The ES is the perfect car in that demographic of people looking for a entry level luxury car that is more plush than sport. Caddy used to be the king in that department but Lexus really stole that market away. The compact sport sedan class really gets all the love from the press but man, is that class competitive. None of the cars from the 3 series to the IS are bad. Even Jag and Alpha have a great presence in that segment. It's arguably one of the most competitive segments in the market.