Is Lexus Becoming The Next Acura?
02-17-17, 06:49 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
Remember that I too am a long time Lexus owner that remembers "the good old days".
The only place that I see where they've really fallen behind is in powerplants, but with this new TTV6 that brings hope that will change.
IMHO they're making cars as well made and a lot more interesting than they ever did before.
The only place that I see where they've really fallen behind is in powerplants, but with this new TTV6 that brings hope that will change.
IMHO they're making cars as well made and a lot more interesting than they ever did before.
Acura is dying because they have no models they can differentiate against a fully loaded Honda equivalent. Lexus has some that are unique and the ones that aren't have unique features not available on the Toyota equivalent.
Last edited by My0gr81; 02-17-17 at 06:56 PM.
02-17-17, 06:52 PM
#47
Powerplant wise, Lexus was making incremental improvements on their 3.5 and 5l engines, but those didn't get much attention as they got reflected in the suffix of the main block. They really should have given them new names as they added features or unique capabilities over time.
02-17-17, 06:53 PM
#48
Disclaimer: I do not care about car brands whatsoever. I'm only making my points in response.
Lol this is almost entertaining. Why can't we just accept that the automotive industry will continue to advance and with that will come changes to everything we know about cars. I'll give you their new design language is a bit controversial and yes, they use some older engines but here is the thing:
1. The 'outdated' V6 isn't only underrated by Lexus from the factory but is efficient and advanced for its time. I see it disappearing in the future and replaced by a TTV6, but that is not to discredit how good it was for its time.
2. Lexus focuses more on luxury and reliability than ANY German brand. I don't think I need to explain this.
3. Didn't they make a new TTV6 and turbo 4 in most of their newer cars?
4. Yes, the new designs aren't to everyone's liking. But some people like something that looks different from everything else.
5. Yes, the F brand cars are underpowered. But that is not a bad thing. Aerodynamics is where improvements are coming in the future because putting down 600+ HP even on high performance summer tires without losing traction is a challenge. Just because they don't have enough power to keep up with M and AMG doesn't make them lesser road cars. Besides, I think I'd much rather have my traction in a lower powered car and enjoy it more than trying to fight the rear end on a 600+ HP car. Not saying that high horsepower is a bad thing, but the industry is changing. At some point in time we won't be able to add more power due to emissions regulations and such. (side note: If Lexus really wanted to compete with M and AMG do you really think they wouldn't have already...?)
And aside from that, just because they don't have V8s in their high end cars does not mean they are going to lose customers. The majority of people who buy luxury cars don't care too much about going 85 MPH into a corner and being able to go really fast and enjoy the driving experience. If anything, they want new electronics, technology, and a quieter, smoother ride, the exact opposite of what a V8 engine and a stiff suspension provide. A more silent TTV6 suits that better. Technology improves and with it, older technology must go. As a car enthusiast I understand the fun and excitement of owning a V8 with a 6 speed manual but if you think a TTV6 will just drain all the fun out of a car just because it doesn't suit your image of a 'sporty' or 'luxury' car (even if it does make more power) then I don't know what to say to you.
That being said I do not see at all how Lexus is, in any way, going down Acura's path. Acura's glory days went from the 90s to about 2008 after the Type-S was discontinued, and then they had controversial designs and underpowered engines relative to its competition. The TLX V6? Its (essentially) the same V6 used in the 2007 Type-S and not only that but they put the same engine in the 2017 Pilot and 2018 Odyssey. I don't see Toyota putting a Sienna engine in any car aside from the ES and RX (2GR FE V6. And I have no doubt that will change). And yes, while Lexus still does use the 2GR FSE from 2006, they have made new engines to replace it. Not to mention, the majority of Lexus models are RWD, one of the essential things in defining a luxury/sports car. The market is moving more towards SUVs and Lexus is adapting to that change. Acura only has 2 SUVs, and yes, while they are arguably the best in their respective segments, they aren't producing enough cars to compete with the industry AND we haven't heard a single report about a new future powertrain aside from the NSX and the new MDX SH-AWD system, but that is it. The only thing they really changed was their transmissions, from 6 speeds to 8, 9, and 10 speed transmissions. Their cars are still FWD and lag behind their opponents in a straight line and in corners while Lexus has made new engines, new transmissions, new redesigned interiors, new cars, new designs, etc. For God's sake the new LC is supposed to compete with the 911, arguably the greatest sports car of all time.
So tell me again, how is Lexus becoming Acura?
Lol this is almost entertaining. Why can't we just accept that the automotive industry will continue to advance and with that will come changes to everything we know about cars. I'll give you their new design language is a bit controversial and yes, they use some older engines but here is the thing:
1. The 'outdated' V6 isn't only underrated by Lexus from the factory but is efficient and advanced for its time. I see it disappearing in the future and replaced by a TTV6, but that is not to discredit how good it was for its time.
2. Lexus focuses more on luxury and reliability than ANY German brand. I don't think I need to explain this.
3. Didn't they make a new TTV6 and turbo 4 in most of their newer cars?
4. Yes, the new designs aren't to everyone's liking. But some people like something that looks different from everything else.
5. Yes, the F brand cars are underpowered. But that is not a bad thing. Aerodynamics is where improvements are coming in the future because putting down 600+ HP even on high performance summer tires without losing traction is a challenge. Just because they don't have enough power to keep up with M and AMG doesn't make them lesser road cars. Besides, I think I'd much rather have my traction in a lower powered car and enjoy it more than trying to fight the rear end on a 600+ HP car. Not saying that high horsepower is a bad thing, but the industry is changing. At some point in time we won't be able to add more power due to emissions regulations and such. (side note: If Lexus really wanted to compete with M and AMG do you really think they wouldn't have already...?)
And aside from that, just because they don't have V8s in their high end cars does not mean they are going to lose customers. The majority of people who buy luxury cars don't care too much about going 85 MPH into a corner and being able to go really fast and enjoy the driving experience. If anything, they want new electronics, technology, and a quieter, smoother ride, the exact opposite of what a V8 engine and a stiff suspension provide. A more silent TTV6 suits that better. Technology improves and with it, older technology must go. As a car enthusiast I understand the fun and excitement of owning a V8 with a 6 speed manual but if you think a TTV6 will just drain all the fun out of a car just because it doesn't suit your image of a 'sporty' or 'luxury' car (even if it does make more power) then I don't know what to say to you.
That being said I do not see at all how Lexus is, in any way, going down Acura's path. Acura's glory days went from the 90s to about 2008 after the Type-S was discontinued, and then they had controversial designs and underpowered engines relative to its competition. The TLX V6? Its (essentially) the same V6 used in the 2007 Type-S and not only that but they put the same engine in the 2017 Pilot and 2018 Odyssey. I don't see Toyota putting a Sienna engine in any car aside from the ES and RX (2GR FE V6. And I have no doubt that will change). And yes, while Lexus still does use the 2GR FSE from 2006, they have made new engines to replace it. Not to mention, the majority of Lexus models are RWD, one of the essential things in defining a luxury/sports car. The market is moving more towards SUVs and Lexus is adapting to that change. Acura only has 2 SUVs, and yes, while they are arguably the best in their respective segments, they aren't producing enough cars to compete with the industry AND we haven't heard a single report about a new future powertrain aside from the NSX and the new MDX SH-AWD system, but that is it. The only thing they really changed was their transmissions, from 6 speeds to 8, 9, and 10 speed transmissions. Their cars are still FWD and lag behind their opponents in a straight line and in corners while Lexus has made new engines, new transmissions, new redesigned interiors, new cars, new designs, etc. For God's sake the new LC is supposed to compete with the 911, arguably the greatest sports car of all time.
So tell me again, how is Lexus becoming Acura?
Last edited by Rezno; 02-18-17 at 08:50 AM.
02-17-17, 07:05 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
And aside from that, just because they don't have V8s in their high end cars does not mean they are going to lose customers. The majority of people who buy luxury cars don't care too much about going 85 MPH into a corner and being able to go really fast and enjoy the driving experience. If anything, they want new electronics, technology, and a quieter, smoother ride, the exact opposite of what a V8 engine and a stiff suspension provide. A more silent TTV6 suits that better. Technology improves and with it, older technology must go. As a car enthusiast I understand the fun and excitement of owning a V8 with a 6 speed manual but if you think a TTV6 will just drain all the fun out of a car just because it doesn't suit your image of a 'sporty' or 'luxury' car (even if it does make more power) then I don't know what to say to you.
02-17-17, 07:13 PM
#50
What you're losing sight of here, though, is the issue of refinement with a N/A V8....it's not simply a matter of performance or handling. And V8s don't HAVE to have stiff suspensions.....as today's Hyundai, Kia, Genesis (and, yes, the former Lexus models of the 1990s and early 2000s) proved.
02-17-17, 07:15 PM
#51
Lexus Champion
In your opinion? This is no opinion. It is FACT. Akio Toyoda has been president of Toyota Motor Company since June 2009 so he is no longer the "new" president either.
Here you go again. You do not like the direction that Toyota has selected regarding hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells, so you go and claim that "TMC burnt a lot of money on hybrids, and hydrogen fuel cells...".
GM is pursuing hybrids (the Volt is a plug-in hybrid), as are most major automakers, including Hyundai and Kia. Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz are pursuing hydrogen fuel cells. Mercedes-Benz has been researching hydrogen fuel cells for quite a few years but nobody says it is "burning a lot of money on hydrogen fuel cells".
GM is pursuing hybrids (the Volt is a plug-in hybrid), as are most major automakers, including Hyundai and Kia. Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz are pursuing hydrogen fuel cells. Mercedes-Benz has been researching hydrogen fuel cells for quite a few years but nobody says it is "burning a lot of money on hydrogen fuel cells".
02-17-17, 07:43 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
I wonder if the new Dynamic Force 2.5-litre I4 engine in the new Camry will offer this technology also?
02-17-17, 07:50 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Stop confusing everybody with all these facts lol
02-17-17, 08:22 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Does seem that way a lot of times doesn't it?
What I don't really get is what people think was so innovative and cutting edge about older Lexus cars back in the day...those that think they seem to lack something now.
What I don't really get is what people think was so innovative and cutting edge about older Lexus cars back in the day...those that think they seem to lack something now.
02-17-17, 09:27 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
I doubt many people spend this kind of money on a car they think is ugly...
02-18-17, 05:30 AM
#60
Instructor
To OP, SERIOUSLY? So you represent all americans in America now? Just because you don't like the spindle grill does not mean others wont like it too. In reality Lexus is selling them like hotcakes where I live. I see 2013+ Lexus's everywhere. Heck the new RX sold so well my dealer could not keep any in stock! You must be living in an alternate reality and have somehow managed to communicate with us through your 5th dimension with some advanced tech incomprehensible to our human minds!
Granted everyones opinion is valid. You may not like the Predator grill but I LOVE the Spindle grill. The opposite is true that just because I LOVE lexus current designs does not mean others will and I cannot say that all Americans love this design. Your pathetic for even forcing your opinion down our throats and appear as if your the Ambassador of the great USA and all you saw is representative of everybody. Which I find is very distasteful.
Granted everyones opinion is valid. You may not like the Predator grill but I LOVE the Spindle grill. The opposite is true that just because I LOVE lexus current designs does not mean others will and I cannot say that all Americans love this design. Your pathetic for even forcing your opinion down our throats and appear as if your the Ambassador of the great USA and all you saw is representative of everybody. Which I find is very distasteful.