SW17LS

While I agree that some iterations of the spindle grill are a little ungainly IMHO, I think they are finding their way. For instance I don't care for the refresh GS, but I really like the refresh ES, and I think the LC and LS look great (I have a couple issues with the LS styling but they don't center around the grille). On SUVs, I like the refresh LS, but don't care for the RX in general (but interestingly, the spindle is not what I dislike, IMHO its too angular), the NX I don't care for the base vehicle because I don't like the "beak shape" of the front end, but I do like the front clip of the F Sport better.

This is no different than any other manufacturer. Every manufacturer has designs I really like, and designs I really don't care for. For instance Mercedes, I like the S Class, I like the GLS, I like the GLC. I like the coupes, all of them. I don't like the new E Class, the C sedan is just okay, and I don't like overall the GLC.

mmarshall

If you guys think Car Chat is bad along those lines, you should see some of the bozo-postings in car forums like AOL, newspaper and You-Tube auto-reviews. Here, at least, we have credible moderators to keep things from getting out of hand.

Lexus, in those days, was all (or mostly) about combining refinement, quietness, and fit/finish (remember the smooth talking James Sloyan ads with the ball-bearings and champagne glasses?) with Japanese quality and reliability. Today, Lexus seems (mostly) concerned with sporting, canyon-carving, and cutting weight with ever-thinner materials.

SW17LS

I don't think this description is really accurate or fair. Yes the cars are more dynamic, but not completely at the expense of comfort. Interior material quality also while it was diminished for a period seems to be a major focus again. My GS for instance was very dynamic, but also very comfortable and nice riding. The AVS suspension gave it a nice kind of duality. The interior was also considerably better and more solid than that of the 3GS. The 4RX as an example is the quietest smoothest riding RX I've ever driven, with by far the highest quality interior since the original RX300. IMHO the interior of the 3RX was terrible. The mid cycle refresh of the ES softened it, and improved material quality and basically totally reversed my negative outlook on the pre-refresh 6ES. Look at the 2013 refresh of the 4LS, huge improvements in internal material usage and quality. Interior of the refresh LX, again huge improvement in material usage and quality. The interior materials on the new LC (which I have seen in person) are the highest I have ever seen on any Lexus, and the new LS looks to be no different.

One of the great things about technology is that you actually can have a great riding, isolating suspension that can be firm and taut when you want that through modern adaptive dampers, air suspension setups, etc. Modern noise cancelation technology allows carmakers to provide the quiet ride buyers want without having to add as much heavy sound deadening. IMHO since 2013 they seem to be focusing considerably on interiors again, using more exotic materials, more stitched trim, better carpeting and seat designs...

Don't agree with your negative outlook on these areas at all.

BoDarville

underrated?

vehicle............................... claimed hp.................... 5 - 60 mph (secs.)
jag xe 35t.............................. 340hp.............................. 4.8 secs
ats 3.6 ...................................335hp.............................. 5.8
a4 quattro............................. 252hp............................... 6.0
s60 t6.................................... 302hp............................... 6.2
is350..................................... 306hp................................ 6.2
328i....................................... 240hp................................ 6.3


efficient? many CL members in the IS forum indicating ther avg mpg is in the teens.

i think its generally accepted the reason they have kept the 3.5 this long is it has proven to be reliable, i won't dispute that

mmarshall

Yes....I'll admit it's exaggerated, but there is a fair amount of truth to it. The Lexus of today is simply not the same company as it was when it became great....during the Sloyan ball-bearing and champagne-glass ads. What's happened is that, unlike back then, at least as I see it, BMW has had a huge emphasis on Lexus lately.....and vice-versa, as BMW products have become less-athletic and more mainstream.

Yes, Lexus did a far better job on the new RX than with the NX. I did full-reviews on both....and was not very impressed with the NX's road-manners and refinement, even with its lower price than the RX.


What did you dislike about it? I didn't see any problem with it, though the tall 60-series tires did not ride quite as smoothly as I expected them to.

It wasn't all negative. I just didn't have time to separate all the wheat from the chaff in just one post. And, yes, adjustable suspensions help....though low-profile tires/wheels are still relatively prone to impact/pothole damage no matter what kind of suspension you have.

SW17LS

Yes the company is different, but different doesn't mean less than they used to be, or somehow not as good. I've been a Lexus owner for 18 years, I have owned Lexus models built during the storied "great old days", I have owned Lexus models built during the mid 2010s (bad years) and I have owned modern Lexus models built as a part of Lexus' new brand philosophy. The difference between the old Lexus products and the new Lexus products is character. My 98 LS and my 04 LS and my 03 ES and my 10 ES were all great cars, but they didn't have any personality. My 13 GS however, and to a lesser extent my 15 LS have a lot of character. Those cars are every bit as well built and well appointed as any of those older cars, every bit as comfortable to ride in and drive too.

I've also extensively driven the NX, and for what it is its fine. If you drive some of those other small entry level luxury CUVs you'll find it compares to its target pretty well.

Material quality was terrible. I don't see how you can bemoan thin, cheap materials and not see their use in the 3RX, IMHO it was Lexus' worst offender, worse even than the first run 6ES. Hard, cheap feeling plastic everywhere. Cheap low pile carpeting, crummy leather. Not a premium feeling vehicle inside at all IMHO.

mmarshall

Well, I'll certainly expect your opinion on it.....as I expect others to do with me.

UDel

I have to agree, saying the current 6 cylinder in the IS and GS is underrated and fuel efficient is not accurate.

When I test drove the new GS350 it felt pretty lethargic and like it was missing power, I am used to a V8 but it only has 300hp. Most test have the newer GS350 and IS350 being slower then last generation models, if anything I think the current 6 cylinder in the GS feels like it lost power or it is geared differently for fuel economy to feel like it lost power. Most of what I am reading are people reporting really bad V8 like or worse fuel economy for the GS350 especially for a pretty modern DI 6 cylinder with a 8 speed auto. What I got out most of my test drive was I was really going to miss a V8, even one as old as mine.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

this was entertaining to read. OP's 'bomb throwing' thread title was sure to get views and responses. it's a sensitive topic, and while i can see the line of thinking, especially that a lot of the lexus line-up models are either old, or their drive trains are old, and that lexus is glacially slow to update things, and seems to be slipping behind competition in a number of ways, i don't think it's really analogous overall, because lexus line up is simply more up market than acura. the acura rlx is a dud. the latest tlx is a great car, imo, but it's still a front wheel drive car. their suvs are fine but nothing really special. they have no 'f-sport' equivalent. they have no IS, GS, LS, GX, LX equivalents. the nsx is pure awesomeness though, but the LC will bring a lot of excitement to lexus also, in a classier way.

oh r'ly? this made me lol

about those who says we're waxing nostalgic about the '90s and must be current and former 2GS owners and what was so special... well, the 2GS400 had more HP than anyone else. it was sexy as hell compared to the competition. it had a hard drive based easy to use nav, whereas bmw and mercedes still used CDs it was way more reliable. a HUGE modifications market and bandwagon developed because of it. a lot of that has gone away these days, but in fairness, a giant recession, different economy today, different priorities for many, has changed pretty much everything anyway.

i personally don't care that lexus tried to make up for less new 'substance' with more controversial 'style' - but it is what it is. the current models are all still ok to great, but i believe the CT to be an embarrassment, the GX and LX are archaic, and obviously a new LS can't come soon enough, even though the current LS is still a FANTASTIC car. the others, nx, rx, es, is, gs, are all good, but not 'blow me away, must have' good to great.

but is lexus become acura? i don't think so.

SW17LS

I'm legitimately curious, if you thought the 3RX had high quality interior materials, what do you think low quality materials are?

Rezno

iTrader: (1)

It is underrated. The exhaust restrains 20+ HP and there are tunes available to increase that power. Yes, you can't tune it to 400+ HP and twin turbo it, but for an N/A, its pretty good for a V6. Plus it will last longer than any of the engines you listed. You can add up close to about ~50 hp with bolt ons and a tune. Is that a lot? No, but for an NA without a stroker kit it is.

I love how you picked out the 5-60 MPH time just to prove your point. Isn't that something. 0-60 the IS350 will do it anywhere from 4.8 - 5.1 seconds on a good launch (which is pretty much faster than most of the competition besides the 335i and Audi S4). Some people have gotten 4.6 - 4.7 seconds 0-60 on a good launch. Can you do that consistently? Probably not, but the fact that it is capable of those times is something. Its not the fastest time in the world, but pretty good for an NA compact luxury sedan. The 350 is slower at higher speeds due to gearing, but it is fast from about 0-80.

MPG in the teens? Yes, for some. The only time I got less than 20 MPG was when it was snowing in my area and it took me 75 minutes to go about 6 miles. But explain this please:

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I worded that very poorly. What I meant to say was that from the factory, there is more attention paid to improving aero rather than just adding more HP to the engine. They're not dying out (my mistake), but companies are focusing less on getting more power and more on improving the ride and aero.

UDel

I think the OP does have some points, I don't think they need to compare Lexus to Acura or attack Acura though, Acura's main problem is its current generation of cars and they are supposed to be addressing that.

I hear and read a lot of criticism of the new Lexus spindle grill just like the Acura beak in the past, I think it looked decent on the 4th Gen F sport when it first came out but it looks pretty bad on the refresh and I think contributes to why the refresh is not selling well, RX spindle grill does not look good and is out of character for that type of CUV.

Current Gen of GS and IS have carryover engines with same hp when they first came out and are slower then the previous generations and get pretty poor fuel economy to boot.

Losing the V8 in the 4th gen GS was a huge mistake, the expensive hybrid does not sell, GS-F is priced about 10-15K too high so its sales are almost non existent.

CT is not needed in the Lexus lineup and a very poor seller.

IS not as luxurious and plush as the last generation. Quality seems down. Styling while more out there and sporty not as refined as last gen. No IS-F. RC coupe is heavy and not exactly the lust worthy coupe many had hoped.

LS is now going to have a 6 cyl instead of a 8 cyl, it is not known for sure whether it will even have a V8 option or if the only V8 they put in it will be a very expensive performance version which will ensure its rarity and lack of sales. Current LS is a very slow seller and pretty big step under the S class and 7 series.

Camry and Highlander based ES and RX make up bulk of Lexus sales. There are more Toyota based vehicles in Lexus lineup.

In the past RWD Lexus vehicles were more competitive to the Germans when it came to engines, power, and luxurious interiors, now engines and power are not as competitive, handling is certainly better, interiors on some models not as luxurious though. The aftermarket and modding of current Lexus vehicles is not really there, it is a trend for the whole industry but I still see a fair amount of aftermarket interest for the German brands. Some new Lexus models like the LC and new LS are going to be or likely very expensive too, more so then I think many are going to want to pay for a Lexus especially for their specs. The enthusiasm in CL forums for the IS, GS, and RC is just not like it was either, I think because of carryover engines with the same outputs and lack of affordable V8 for the GS. I can see why the OP and many are concerned and a little dissapointed with Lexus right now.

mmarshall

Chrysler-designed vehicles up to the last 7-8 years or so, a number of Toyota-designed products from the mid-2000s up to a few years ago, the last two generations of the Mini-Cooper, and almost anything with an American badge on it, designed in the U.S., during the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s. By modern standards, I'd say the absolute worst I've seen, in the American market, was the (now discontinued) 2Gen Scion tC coupe.....it was the classic El Cheapo budget interior to end all El Cheapos.

SW17LS

If that's your bar, I don't see how you can say any Lexus has ever had "poor materials".

To speak to the GS, I think poor sales are due to poor leases. For returning GS customers a refresh GS is $200 or so more a month which is DOA.

mmarshall

I just felt that some models inside did not measure up to the standards of the competition. That doesn't mean they were poor by, say, economy-car standards.



The ES also appeals to a lot more people. The GS is more sport-oriented. I agree with you that the last couple of years on the ES (its mid-generation face-lift) has seen a better interior, but the ones before that (2012-1015) used a lot of unimpressive thin plastic inside.