CleanSC

As Sulu stated, a mechanical key with a chip in it is more secure than a keyless ignition. The mechanical key is a 2-step anti-theft, the keyless is only one.

Copying and replicating radio waves is not that hard.

And I agree with Jill in the preference for a real key. Not only for the above, but they are cheaper to replace. The smart start on the previous generation (03+) 4Runners with a mechanical key was a great system. Just tap to start, it did the rest.

SW17LS

Let me ask you this, have you ever owned a car with a smart key system? I didn't really see the benefit until I did...especially for women having to dig in purses, etc.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

well good job you guys don't make the decisions as most new cars are now push start and most agree it's a huge positive.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

yup, when i leave the house i grab the fob always hanging in the same place and put it in my pocket. sometimes i'll hit the remote start button before putting it in my pocket if i know the garage is open and i'm still gathering stuff to leave. key never leaves my pocket unless i want to remote start the car, that's it. doors unlock automatically as i put my hand in the handle (because the key is close).
i get in the car, press the brake and button and go.

and the fob being so small isn't obnoxious in my pocket. i don't carry ANY other keys with me. keys to my in town office are in my laptop bag. like you, my home has electronic number pad locks - as you say, no fumbling for keys when you come home or leaving!

yardie876

Because of the keypad lock I have at home, at least once a month I run out of the house and pull the car door handle and can't figure out why it won't open. Duh, I never picked the key up lol.

CleanSC

The company car at my office is a 2015 ES350. So yes, I deal with the system daily. Personally I'm fine with either way in daily life. Taking a key out of a pocket is not something I'd not buy a car over.

I will say this tho, it's easier to get into the car and realize you don't have your key on you with the Smart Keys. Also, it's easier to walk out of your car with it running and not realize. More than once, it's happened at the office where the car was sitting there for hours running by itself. I haven't done it, but it happens to some people that can't hear the car beeping at them, haha. People are distracted as hell these days.

Huge positive until things go wrong. It's all fun and games until you have to fork over $300 or $500 or more depending on make/mode to replace lost or broken keys. Simple Google search and you'll find many unhappy people once the repair/replacement part hits them and they get the sticker shock they had NO idea was lurking.

If I was making the decisions, I'd offer the option. You can go with a regular transponder key or a smart key system. Some people just aren't interested.

JDR76

While it's more expensive to replace a fob than a basic key, I myself am much less likely to lose a smart key over a traditional key. With the traditional key, I'm always taking them in and out of pockets, setting them on the counter, the desk, etc. With a smart key it just stays in my pocked all day. Since I put it in my pocket when I leave for work and leave it there all day until I get home, the likelihood that I will lose it is extremely small.

Count me in the group who would not easily go back to a traditional key/ignition.

SW17LS

I think you'd be surprised by the people who would not buy a car because it doesn't have a smart key system...

As for leaving the car running, I've had smart keys for 13 years...and I've never left a car running, not even a silent Hybrid. Thats something that might happen if you go back and forth between traditional keys and a smart key car, but I also had both for about 6 years and had no issue. Thats something I just don't get.

With a smart key, what is there to break? I have had to replace traditional Lexus keys which have broken, but never a smart key. Loss? I carry many things of value on my person, a wallet with money, a nice watch, nice pens...I've never lost a car key in the 20 years I've been carrying car keys, so to me thats a non issue.

Anyways, a new smart key is like $250. When they were new remote mechanical Lexus keys were like $200. I don't see the difference.

Options like that are expensive, equipping a model all the same is cheaper...and I would dare to say most people want the smart key system which is why the industry has gone that way.

CleanSC

These the same people that buy based on square footage of chrome? Haha not aimed at you, of course. I can appreciate the keyless lifestyle you have designed.

I've never done it, either. But it does happen to people. I've seen it quite a bit in the elderly.

They can break. Dropped too many times, gone thru the washer once too many. It happens. Not to you, or me, but it happens. Same goes for loss. I've never done it myself. But we're enthusiasts.

If I recall a partner here paid $350 for the key, and the labor for programming into the immobilizer.

$50. The difference is $50. Seriously though it's closer to the $300+ dollar range for most. It varies wildly on how the dealer will price out the labor. You buy the key and then there's the labor portion that's separate. Naturally model and year changes the price as well.

They can easily make it worthwhile by charging almost the same for both options. If the client doesn't choose the system, the automaker makes more money. Of course, this is all hypothetical so, moving right along...

You like the system based on your experiences, I am ambivalent (take or leave) based on mine. That's all.

My point is it IS expensive for some. And when you're forced into the system in a lower end car (for example the 2017 Honda Civic), they get blindsided if/when something happens.

We're enthusiasts, things are different for us. Most auto consumers have vastly different desires and takes on these things.

I've heard some real horror stories from people that lost the last smart key with no spares. Is that irresponsible having just one? Yes of course. You or I wouldn't do that. But with the cost of new keys, this scenario plays out a lot more than you think. And get ready when that happens, it ain't pretty. Four figures at the dealership, plus the tow.

Aron9000

A lot of locksmiths now days can make new key fobs for you, for a lot less than what the dealer will charge you. Knew somebody who lost the key fob for his Nissan, locksmith was $300 cheaper than the dealer. Plus they came to his house, saved him a tow to the dealer, which is a big deal IMO.

CleanSC

While this is true for some cars (not everyone gets the option), those fobs are generic of questionable quality and security, usually even without the manufacturer's logo on them. Some Chinese copies will have the logos on them, but they are unlicensed knock offs. You see these on ebay all the time.

If you're paying way less than at the dealer, it's a giveaway you're getting a generic part.

SW17LS

I'm sure it does happen, but the question is does it also happen to people who have cars with traditional kets also? I bet it does.

But this is true of anything you carry that is of value. For instance a few months ago, I was out one night, had a few too many spiritous beverages and I lost a $300 jacket. People loose things, I wouldn't say loosing or breaking your smart key is "common". Breaking the OEM Lexus key however IS common, and I would say virtually everyone who owns a Lexus with one of these keys:



Will experience a broken key. I had two Lexus vehicles with that key, experienced broken keys on each. My aunt still has my old 03 ES, she broke the key a few months ago. I've now owned 4 Lexus vehicles with smart keys and have never experienced a broken key, because the key is not handled, turned in the ignition, etc. So my cost on replacement keys for having two cars with a standard key is WAY higher than the cost of 4 cars with smart keys...which is $0. Money spent on the traditional keyed cars for broken keys is probably $300.

He bought it from the dealer, many other places he could have bought OEM smart keys for ~ $250, and there are even places you can buy refurbished OEM smart keys for $100, and there are always aftermarket options. You don't HAVE to spend that much.

And back in the day, the Lexus master keys were just as expensive. We paid nearly $300 to add a smart key to the 98 LS and that was 18 years ago, adjust that for inflation. When the key broke on it and when it broke on the 03 ES we just bought aftermarket keys, but even they were well over $100.

Same is true of a traditional key, they have to be cut and programmed by the dealer too.

But again, the same risk exists with a traditional immobilizer key. On a Lexus without a smart key, if you loose the last master key with no spares you're just as screwed with the same 4 figure bill. I remember it happening to people here.

CleanSC

Oh yea... That key you posted falls into the same category. My mother's SC430 has it, and my old GS400 had it. Those were some seriously crappy keys. It was just a matter of time. They were worse in the longevity department, that's for sure. So I can agree with you there. All the costs and more risk due to a faulty design.

The good news is you can just buy the housing and swap in your existing transmitter. So they aren't that bad as far as replacement costs if your electronics still work.

As an aside, if you grab the key at the very base, they won't break. My mother's spare key is broken and I still use it by grabbing it at the base. Doesn't make up for the fact they designed these badly, just a tip for those still using these.

Sulu

What does this say about the security (or rather, the lack of security) of these keyless systems when any locksmith with some off-the-shelf keyfob can be programmed to work with your luxury car?

Aron9000

It shows that locksmiths have to keep with the times if they want to stay in business. I'm sure you have to buy software and such to make new smart keys, so there is some initial investment on their part. A lot of people are having electronic locks put on their houses now days as well.