2017 tesla model s p100d new record 0-60 mph in 2.28 seconds!
02-11-17, 06:35 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
As cool as this blistering acceleration is, I think Tesla is missing the boat on getting electric cars to go mainstream. Increased range and reduced price need to be the engineering goals. That is unless Tesla is content to be a niche car maker catering exclusively to the wealthy. That can be a dangerous strategy for a small company like Tesla, sales would tank in a recession.
02-11-17, 08:06 PM
#47
Bob Lutz, who is someone I have a great deal of respect for in the automotive business, has gone on record predicting that Tesla will probably be history within a few years. He personally likes Elon Musk (Tesla's CEO) and gives him high marks for trying.....but Lutz feels that Tesla has bitten off more than they can chew with the company's system of factory-owned dealerships and service facilities. Lutz points out (correctly) that no automotive company or corporation has ever succeeded in the long run with company-owned stores. It just puts too much overhead and unneeded expenses at the corporate level, whereas most automakers have independently-owned franchises eating those costs at the dealer-level.
Unfortunately, electric vehicle technology like batteries and electric motors are not exclusive technology to Tesla, and this technology is in fact well known and used world wide.
Presently, all the big players including Benz, VW and TMC are developing full electric vehicles.
EV technology will improve, while prices will come down, and volumes will increase.
Yes, I think that within the next 5 to 10 years, one of the big players like GM or Ford etc, will buy out Tesla regardless of the P100's 0-60 times...
02-12-17, 03:05 AM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
If that happens, though, GM or Ford, as Tesla's owner, will be stuck with the same high overhead that Tesla has now....but, of course, they have more funds to handle it. The basic problem is not so much in Tesla's vehicles, but in the company-owned infrastructure....that's what is killing them.
02-12-17, 08:43 AM
#49
Why does everybody want to make EVERYTHING turn fast in the corners? The funny part is, all the guys that talk like that have never even stepped foot on a track and all drive like grandmas on the road as well. All for bragging rights (my car car turn this fast, my car does 0-60 in X seconds). Just like 80% of the modded and lifted/blinged out Jeeps that never see even a moderate trail for off road. As long as it looks the part, the guys will go around and brag about their sht.
02-12-17, 09:06 AM
#50
Steve
02-12-17, 09:17 AM
#51
You obviously haven't driven a Tesla Model S! The batteries are at the bottom of the car giving it the lowest CG of any sedan in production. It rides like a luxury sedan and corners like a sport sedan. Anyone can make a car go fast in a corner, the real trick is to combine that with a smooth quiet ride.
Steve
Steve
The only complain is, the interior material choice and generally bland and empty feel of the cabin. Not an environment that is too luxurious and falls way short of the other sedans in this price range.
02-12-17, 11:23 AM
#52
You obviously haven't driven a Tesla Model S! The batteries are at the bottom of the car giving it the lowest CG of any sedan in production. It rides like a luxury sedan and corners like a sport sedan. Anyone can make a car go fast in a corner, the real trick is to combine that with a smooth quiet ride.
Steve
Steve
However, the vehicle's mass is still extremely high, and this extra mass affects both the speed of change in direction [agility], and the terminal grip.
The centrifugal force around a turn is equal to the mass of the vehicle, multiplied by its velocity square, divided by the radius of the turn.
Thus, as the mass increases, the velocity must decrease given the same radius of curvature, and the same amount of grip from the tires.
Thus, racing cars and sports cars like Lamborghinis and the Lexus LFA etc are built from carbon fiber to minimize weight.
02-12-17, 02:52 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
02-13-17, 01:32 AM
#54
0-60 in 2.8 seconds is very impressive. I've been studying for the last year how electric drive systems are constructed and the level of component, motor, controller and battery selection needs to go even to create a moderately powerful and fast setup. Currently the Model S P100D costs a fortune for a very good reason: it can do all of that not only for more than a few seconds or minutes... but if not constantly driven flat out it can be used like a regular car with all of that horsepower and torque until the batteries run low. Driven in a fairly normal way in a city and it's not going to be an EV you have to keep an eye on constantly as you use it for mundane tasks. For a very high performance EV from an OEM that is very impressive.
I'm in the camp that is focused much more on where the battery technology can be improved to leapfrog range, cold temperature performance and hard driving durability. Right now it's the batteries that are the limitation. Incidentally the capacity and design of those cell packs is one of the biggest reasons this model can achieve its lofty 2.8 second Ludicrous acceleration to 60.
The range is pretty good on these models considering but we do have a long way to go. Charging speed is a mixed bag depending on where you are and what EV setup you have as of 2017. A widespread publicly accessible charging infrastructure that isn't a worry to access is the next big hurdle.
I'd love to get a ride in a Model S P85/90/100/D and experience it myself. What does strike me though is that I love Tesla's drivetrain technology and understand the current limitations of battery technology but the car itself isn't really my style (assuming hypothetically for a brief moment that I were able to afford one). While the quality of interior materials may be in question for some it still seems from a distance too much of a luxury machine and automated experience for my tastes. The massive dash screen in particular, while central to the experience, good looking and very useful, isn't the kind of interface I'd wish to pay for.
I agree with Dmitry that in reality it's an extremely exceptional 5000lb high performance luxury family sports sedan that is able to handle very well despite its weight. And at that it fills its role very, very well. I also don't see Tesla being able to make a shorter wheelbase two-door version that gets anywhere close to 3500lbs. Not with current lithium cells. The range indeed would be a LOT less than what the P100D can achieve in 2017. I think there were mentioned some long, long term plans for a coupe... if they don't decide to only make crossovers and SUVs within a few years (which would be a shame if that's all they did). There will be another Roadster first, however. And the Model 3 and Y well before that.
Even the projected 0-60 of the Model 3 sounds decent enough while being nowhere close to 2.8 seconds. As the technology marches forward, however, I'd really love to see Tesla engineer a car or variant of the 3 that is more of a driver's car despite the low maximum battery range. So far the design of the dashboard for it doesn't inspire that confidence to that end. I get the impression the 3 dash design might actually de-emphasize the driver-centric focus. That would also be a shame IF it turns out to be the case.
Nonetheless, the P100D model that's out right now is very impressive! I doubt anyone is seriously going to take it onto a notable racetrack to test its limits for fear of damaging their batteries or motor with an overheat or near flat depletion but in everyday situations it's more than enough car.
For me, the drivetrain, battery, controller technology and R&D in the P100D are what take center stage more than the car itself.
I'm in the camp that is focused much more on where the battery technology can be improved to leapfrog range, cold temperature performance and hard driving durability. Right now it's the batteries that are the limitation. Incidentally the capacity and design of those cell packs is one of the biggest reasons this model can achieve its lofty 2.8 second Ludicrous acceleration to 60.
The range is pretty good on these models considering but we do have a long way to go. Charging speed is a mixed bag depending on where you are and what EV setup you have as of 2017. A widespread publicly accessible charging infrastructure that isn't a worry to access is the next big hurdle.
I'd love to get a ride in a Model S P85/90/100/D and experience it myself. What does strike me though is that I love Tesla's drivetrain technology and understand the current limitations of battery technology but the car itself isn't really my style (assuming hypothetically for a brief moment that I were able to afford one). While the quality of interior materials may be in question for some it still seems from a distance too much of a luxury machine and automated experience for my tastes. The massive dash screen in particular, while central to the experience, good looking and very useful, isn't the kind of interface I'd wish to pay for.
I agree with Dmitry that in reality it's an extremely exceptional 5000lb high performance luxury family sports sedan that is able to handle very well despite its weight. And at that it fills its role very, very well. I also don't see Tesla being able to make a shorter wheelbase two-door version that gets anywhere close to 3500lbs. Not with current lithium cells. The range indeed would be a LOT less than what the P100D can achieve in 2017. I think there were mentioned some long, long term plans for a coupe... if they don't decide to only make crossovers and SUVs within a few years (which would be a shame if that's all they did). There will be another Roadster first, however. And the Model 3 and Y well before that.
Even the projected 0-60 of the Model 3 sounds decent enough while being nowhere close to 2.8 seconds. As the technology marches forward, however, I'd really love to see Tesla engineer a car or variant of the 3 that is more of a driver's car despite the low maximum battery range. So far the design of the dashboard for it doesn't inspire that confidence to that end. I get the impression the 3 dash design might actually de-emphasize the driver-centric focus. That would also be a shame IF it turns out to be the case.
Nonetheless, the P100D model that's out right now is very impressive! I doubt anyone is seriously going to take it onto a notable racetrack to test its limits for fear of damaging their batteries or motor with an overheat or near flat depletion but in everyday situations it's more than enough car.
For me, the drivetrain, battery, controller technology and R&D in the P100D are what take center stage more than the car itself.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-13-17 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Grammatical correction
02-13-17, 01:57 AM
#55
Bob Lutz, who is someone I have a great deal of respect for in the automotive business, has gone on record predicting that Tesla will probably be history within a few years. He personally likes Elon Musk (Tesla's CEO) and gives him high marks for trying.....but Lutz feels that Tesla has bitten off more than they can chew with the company's system of factory-owned dealerships and service facilities. Lutz points out (correctly) that no automotive company or corporation has ever succeeded in the long run with company-owned stores. It just puts too much overhead and unneeded expenses at the corporate level, whereas most automakers have independently-owned franchises eating those costs at the dealer-level.
The dealer-franchise sales model may eat some of the costs that can overburden an OEM but those costs or measures to offset them certainly do get passed on to car buyers. And going anywhere to consider buying any new vehicle that's even remotely unique or special with specific options is often an uphill fight.
Tesla vehicles are not affordable to all but a small percentage of people but ordering from them seems to more closely align with how new vehicles are purchased in Europe and Japan.
I will, however, ding them for only last week making an effort to have TSRM manuals for independent repair or owner repair made available. I get it that there are far fewer systems to service in an EV and also that people who buy a $100k+ vehicle don't often (or ever) work on their cars... but in terms of the precedent it set at the very least for second and third-hand ownership... I didn't like there not being any service options other than Tesla's own approved repair network and technicians.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-13-17 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Grammatical correction
02-13-17, 06:30 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
^^ Much as it pains me to say it, Lutz might be right in the long run. I hope not though. Tesla is niche right now and at the moment their direct sales business model works for them at this level. On a larger scale things may well be different but almost no one has tried to buck the extremely closed and legally protected dealer-franchise system in the past. At least I can't think of any notable examples. Even Preston Tucker wasn't going that far-- he was just buried before his own cars could get into the hands of any dealer network arrangements he'd made (other than some official Tucker accessories like floor mats and factory optional radios getting to buyers with reserve orders... but I digress).
02-13-17, 10:45 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Tesla Motors has accomplished so many things that were widely regarded as being impossible so I put very little weight into the ongoing doom and gloom predictions.
02-13-17, 11:12 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Well, Bob Lutz himself is no dummy...and has served in high positions on several different auto manufacturers and corporations. And he and Elon Musk have a good relationship and mutual respect...so it's not like there's anything personal between the two of them, or that Lutz has an ax to grind. If Lutz, with his vast knowledge and experience, says that Tesla has bitten off too much to chew, IMO there is at least some credibility behind it.
02-13-17, 11:29 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Did Lutz also predict that GM would go bankrupt?
02-13-17, 03:31 PM
#60
Uhh what? This is a 5000lb family sedan. Why would they even remotely care about making it fast in the corners? This is not a track car.
Why does everybody want to make EVERYTHING turn fast in the corners? The funny part is, all the guys that talk like that have never even stepped foot on a track and all drive like grandmas on the road as well. All for bragging rights (my car car turn this fast, my car does 0-60 in X seconds). Just like 80% of the modded and lifted/blinged out Jeeps that never see even a moderate trail for off road. As long as it looks the part, the guys will go around and brag about their sht.
Why does everybody want to make EVERYTHING turn fast in the corners? The funny part is, all the guys that talk like that have never even stepped foot on a track and all drive like grandmas on the road as well. All for bragging rights (my car car turn this fast, my car does 0-60 in X seconds). Just like 80% of the modded and lifted/blinged out Jeeps that never see even a moderate trail for off road. As long as it looks the part, the guys will go around and brag about their sht.