Fizzboy7

The question is this... if Buick's numbers are growing, where are they growing? What part of the country are they selling cars? If it is NOT on the West Coast or NYC, adding a premium luxury level is a bad idea. Those are the regions who like and want to spend money on prestige and status. If it's middle America or the Heartland, forget it. They want bread and butter traditional Buicks at affordable prices. This is why I fear such a plan would backfire. I see virtually zero new Buick sedans here in L.A., other than rental units. Those buying Buicks and inflating the numbers are those who don't want or care about a high end model. Buick SUV sales may also be skewing the numbers (Maybe a higher line SUV would make more sense.). I would have to hope GM did this demographic study, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.

mmarshall

First, as you note, Buicks are popular in the Midwest, particularly the Great Lakes states.....and two Buick sedans, the LaCrosse and Regal, offer AWD for the snow conditions there, so one does not necessarily have to get an SUV. Second, the SUVs themselves, particularly the small Encore, have done very well...the Encore is particularly popular with first-time Buick buyers, and has expanded the brand significantly, drawing in younger people. The LaCrosse remains popular with older folks and traditional Buick sedan buyers...though IMO it is not a true Buick flagship (the Avenir may play that role later on). Only the Regal seems to have problems selling........and that is because the Verano crowded it out from below by being almost as much car for a lot less money, and the LaCrosse crowded it out from above by being larger and more comfortable. The Regal GS got a reputation with the enthusiast magazines as a good, German/Opel-engineered sport-sedan, but few Buick buyers are looking for that type of car.

Hope that clears it up for you a little.

Sulu

People are not buying crossover and sport utility vehicles because they offer AWD; if they were, there would be no FWD CUVs offered. The overwhelming reason people buy crossover and sport utility vehicles is the lifestyle (current fashion) choice.

Similarly, traditional sedans offered with AWD are not going to keep people from buying CUVs and SUVs. The greater ground clearance -- even on a FWD CUV is going to be better in the snow than an AWD sedan.

mmarshall

Agreed.....AWD is not the only reason people buy SUVs. But, on the other hand, many people are not even aware that a number of sedans outside of the Subaru line even offer it. When they do find out, they are surprised.

dseag2

Well said. The Midwest (maybe with the exception of Chicago) prefers very "under the radar" purchases. They tend to be more unassuming in their purchases, so a higher level trim will most likely not go over all that well where Buick is seeing the most traction.

dseag2

Granted, this is from 2014, but look at the number of vehicles Buick is selling China vs. the US. The Avenir level makes lots of sense there.

​​​​​​http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/08/b...les-year-ever/

mmarshall

I disagree.....at least to some extent. I don't see it as a issue of being "under the radar". The Midwest has a long tradition of buying American-badge products. Like Ford/Chevy/Dodge down in the NASCAR-influenced South, Buick has been an especially popular nameplate in the Midwest for several reasons....not the least being the crappy, winter-torn road surfaces in the Snow Belt necessitating vehicles with a fairly soft suspension and smooth ride (Michigan's roads, for example, can be especially bad). Also, the Midwest tends to have a higher percentage of its population older then the average American...many of the younger persons having left for job opportunities in other areas of the country. Though there are exceptions, older buyers (especially the early Baby Boomers and what is left of the WWII generation) tend to be more faithful to American-badged products then young ones......many of whom aren't buying cars at all.

Fizzboy7

Yes, but that doesn't really address if there is demand for a premium Buick brand. One has to study and look at what sells where in the U.S.

SW17LS

And the fact that people in the Midwest may want less flashy cars is a great case for this actually.

An "Avenir" Buick isn't as flashy as a Cadillac.

Aron9000

A lot of people in the midwest(and in the south), if they want a status symbol type of vehicle they'll buy a loaded crew cab pickup truck of some sort, not a Cadillac,Lincoln Buick, Lexus or Mercedes Benz.

mmarshall

Let's wait and see what production Avenirs actually look like inside and out before making that statement. And not every Cadillac has the bling and flash of an Escalade.

If we're lucky (but don't bet the farm on it).........we'll see one downtown in a few more days. My camera's ready.

SW17LS

They're not going to be as flashy as a Cadillac, why would they be? They'll deliberately be a step below, as Denali is with GMC.

Its not about bling. Not everybody wants to drive around in an ostentatious luxury car. Take me for example, one of the reasons why I've stayed with Lexus and not moved on to a BMW or Mercedes is a Lexus flies under the radar more, you don't get the same reaction when you pull up in one. I'm in sales, and while you want to look successful for sure, you never want to look more successful than your clientele, it changes their desire to work with you and help you out, and it makes you look overpaid. If I pulled up to a $350,000 house in a $120,000 S550 I would look out of place.

Hence why I would buy a Yukon Denali before I bought an Escalade.

mmarshall

I only brought it up because, though it may or may not apply with the new Avenir (again, wait and see?) I can remember numerous big Buicks that were as plush (or plusher) and ornate as Cadillacs. Probably the best examples were the Electra 225s of the late 60s.

(Yes, some people complain about me mentioning automotive history, but sometimes I consider it relevant to a point I'm trying to make even about the present).



If I were looking for a house or other place to live, and I hired you as an agent, personally, I couldn't care less what you drove....or what you drove me around in. To me, whether you are in a Yugo or a Bentley makes zero difference...as far as I'm concerned, we're there to find a residence and do the paperwork, not impress one with a set of wheels.

SW17LS

That was a lifetime ago, the landscape and buyer attitudes are totally different now.

Unfortunately I can tell you with 100% confidence that it isn't that way with everybody lol

TangoRed

When this sub-brand was announced back in September they were pretty clear it wasn't going to Cadillac level flashiness. BTW, they already have an Avenir trim level model out in China. Feast your eyes on the GL8 Avenir:




http://blog.caranddriver.com/buicks-...inese-minivan/